Politics and Elections in the Netherlands: coalition agreement presented

[Tender Branson]

Meanwhile, Erdogan has called the Netherlands Nazis and fascists (after calling Germany Nazis earlier this week). Comedy gold.

Yeah.

He also called Austria the same.

Plus, one Turkish cabinet member said Austria is "committing crimes against humanity" (by not letting them campaign).

And another cabinet member posted on Twitter: "To Austrian Chancellor Kern: F**k off !"

http://www.krone.at/oesterreich/oesterreich-begeht-verbrechen-gegen-menschlichkeit-erdogan-regime-story-558426

[Angel of Death]

In a twisted sense, this is a stroke of genius by the Erdoğan regime. They knew that the added sensitivity of the imminent Dutch election would help provoke this diplomatic incident, allowing them to incite the nationalistic sentiment that will help them win their referendum. It's Putin-tier in its reckless audacity.

[Dutch Conservative]

In a twisted sense, this is a stroke of genius by the Erdoğan regime. They knew that the added sensitivity of the imminent Dutch election would help provoke this diplomatic incident, allowing them to incite the nationalistic sentiment that will help them win their referendum. It's Putin-tier in its reckless audacity.

Indeed, in a bizar way this news will benefit the parties VVD, PVV and Denk. Still proud of our government for acting this way.

[DavidB.]

Family Affairs Minister Kaya will go to Rotterdam by car. Erdo has threatened to revoke the landing permissions for passenger planes from the Netherlands. Truly a present for Geert Wilders, while he blew his own campaign, lol.

[Tender Branson]

Family Affairs Minister Kaya will go to Rotterdam by car. Erdo has threatened to revoke the landing permissions for passenger planes from the Netherlands. Truly a present for Geert Wilders, while he blew his own campaign, lol.

Erodgan is just cutting himself in his own flesh with these actions ...

Apparently, he doesn't know that Germans/Dutch/Austrians are representing 90% of tourists in and around the Antalya coast.

Bookings from Austria to Turkey are already down 80% in February compared with last year, with many opting for less-troubled regions such as Spain, Italy, Croatia and Greece.

If Erdogan also pisses off Germany and Holland (and as a result, tourists from there), this will also hurt the workers on the Turkish coast - which in effect will turn against Erogan in the long-term.

[Tender Branson]

Family Affairs Minister Kaya will go to Rotterdam by car.

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[2952-0-0]

Why aren't any of these European politicians calling out Erdogan for his Nazi comparisons by pointing out that the Nazis harassed opposition parties and jailed critical journalists while promising to make the country great again?

[Tender Branson]

Why aren't any of these European politicians calling out Erdogan for his Nazi comparisons by pointing out that the Nazis harassed opposition parties and jailed critical journalists while promising to make the country great again?

Sebastian Kurz did so (and Angela Merkel as well today) ...

[Zinneke]

Why aren't any of these European politicians calling out Erdogan for his Nazi comparisons by pointing out that the Nazis harassed opposition parties and jailed critical journalists while promising to make the country great again?

What?
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20161128STO53408/eu-turkey-relations-“we-are-entering-a-new-phase”

[ApatheticAustrian]

erdogan is no putin....he is not planning, he is just DOING IT, cause he feels like it, like any random strongman.

there really really is  no reason why the destruction of turkey's liberal tradition and democratic institutions must be promoted in european cities.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

erdogan is no putin....he is not planning, he is just DOING IT, cause he feels like it, like any random strongman.

there really really is  no reason why the destruction of turkey's liberal tradition and democratic institutions must be promoted in european cities.

Are you talking about a different turkey, or what? The country has never been a liberal country, and has only occasionally been democratic.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Are you talking about a different turkey, or what? The country has never been a liberal country, and has only occasionally been democratic.

compared to nearly every other state in the region, turkey is quite a democratic state and was ofc kind-of liberal since Atatürk. one could ofc make the case that this was kind of liberal autocracy but i am pretty sure this traditions are a major reason why the country is ...or has been...a major powerhouse in the last years, compared to its less liberal and otherwise even more conservative neighbours.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Atatürk was never a liberal, and had no interest in creating a liberal country. Even his much vaunted secularism was a bit of a sham - after all, he had no problem with marching troops into Yazidi communities, shooting their elders and forcibly converting them to Islam. Kemalism was never a democratic or liberal idelaogy; merely a sort of cargo cult that seemed to emulate western countries with the impression prosperity would follow (the logic that says if you ban fezzes and adopt a Latin alphabet somehow success will follow). He bears far more in common with conservative nation builders like Bismarck than anything else.

In fact, one could argue Erdogan (especially the latter day Erdogan) is mainly awful because he combines the worst aspects of Turkish nationalism (which Kemal codified), with smug Islamism.

[ApatheticAustrian]

In fact, one could argue Erdogan (especially the latter day Erdogan) is mainly awful because he combines the worst aspects of Turkish nationalism (which Kemal codified), with smug Islamism.

since i have learned a lot about turkey during the last years, i agree with you in many ways, especially regarding the nationalism which is often the course of honor killings and the military supreme command was surely the real power behind the state.

i see it that way:

atatürk in some pushed turkey to become a modern state, without making it liberal in any modern sense of the word.

but...that state was imho well-organized enough, to at least lay the foundation for later things to come..... which were realized in erdogan's early years.

now we live through the rollback, both of erdogan's early pro-democratic reforms AND of atatürk's national-secular vision.

i agree, kemalism is far more guilty than often seen in the west, but i think it still was a solid fundament for better things to come....now we live through the worst of both worlds.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Yes, I don't think Kemal is Hitler or anything, but I feel that he made crucial mistakes about the Turkish state - namely leaving it overly militarised, dominated by a snobbish bureaucratic class and overly focused on ethnic nationalism rather than a more inclusive civic nationalism - that have definitely impacted Turkey negatively since he passed. It's a shame because it allowed Erdogan to rise by presenting himself as the relative pluralist.

Irt secularism I think there's a compromise one can draw. I am not a huge fan of laicite. I think it's overly crude and a bit creepy. Yes, secularism should be pushed when it expands individual rights; but when it seeks to control we should be suspicious.

[Beezer]

[Middle-aged Europe]

Uh oh, and I thought German-Turkish diplomatic relations were bad right now....

[Classic Conservative]

Geert responds: https://mobile.twitter.com/geertwilderspvv/status/840695139244879872

[Angel of Death]

My gut tells me this will hardly affect the election, given the Dutch are closing ranks on this.

[Pericles]

The momentum is against Wilders now.

[Bumaye]

My gut tells me this will hardly affect the election, given the Dutch are closing ranks on this.

 
  
Especially because all major parties back the government in their actions. Of course Wilders is less diplomatic about it than Klaver but still, there is not much to gain from a topic where all parties agree for once.  
  
Well, I guess Vienna/Berlin/Amsterdam is the new Axis of Evil for Erdo and his fanboys. If Bern and Ljubljana would join we could be the Fascist Crescent.

[windjammer]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

[Zinneke]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

They won't ally with the PVV again, at least Buma has said so.

[jeron]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

That's not going to happen and if CDA does decide to do it, the next election would be a total disaster for CDA, like the 2012 election.

[windjammer]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

That's not going to happen and if CDA does decide to do it, the next election would be a total disaster for CDA, like the 2012 election.

It was a total disaster for the CDA because they were the minor coalition partner, it would have been totally different if they were the leading coalition party.

And yes of course that won't happen, they should though