Infraction Point System Poll
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Poll
Question: More harm than good?
#1
More harm
 
#2
More good
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 63

Author Topic: Infraction Point System Poll  (Read 2368 times)
Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
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« on: July 22, 2015, 02:59:43 PM »

I argue it does more harm than good.  In spirit it is supposed to be a fair, consistent way to keep problem posters in check.

Instead, it deeply alienates good posters who get caught up by overzealous mods or who make an occasional poo on the living room floor.

It doesn't really keep problem posters in check.

Its application is subjective according to the many different mods with many different moderation approaches. 

It promotes a culture of toxicity among the community and plays the main role in the "us vs. them" mentality between mods and the community at large.  I do not remember this being an issue prior to the point system being in place.

I argue to just dump it.  Let mods delete posts and let the modadmins place posters on mod review, temp ban, or permaban posters.
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Torie
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 03:05:00 PM »

This is actually an important poll, because as may have been disclosed, Dave has been asking for feedback in the Cave on the infraction point system, so this poll may influence his decision, along with the comments made. I am unaware of any Mod who is in love with the system, although personally I don't think it matters that much one way or the other in the end (and I don't infract very often myself), but certainly my opinion would be influenced by community feedback, and I think Dave's would too. He really does care about the community, despite his long absences. He just has other priorities on his plate. Thanks Snow.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2015, 03:07:39 PM »

I don't have a strong opinion on it. Wouldn't mind seeing it gone, but I don't see what major problems it causes either.

If you get 50 infraction points you have to really want it.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2015, 03:29:53 PM »

I don't have a strong opinion on it. Wouldn't mind seeing it gone, but I don't see what major problems it causes either.

If you get 50 infraction points you have to really want it.

or the mods have to really want it (see ccsf)
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Negusa Nagast 🚀
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2015, 04:33:17 PM »

It's inception was brought about by a mentally-challenged manchild from Oklahoma. Of course it's a horrid system.

(srs answer: what snowyguy said)
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2015, 04:38:34 PM »

Given the childish antics of some mods recently maybe they should not have this power.
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Green Line
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2015, 04:39:43 PM »

Perhaps everyone should have infraction power.  That way we can keep the mods honest.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2015, 04:55:30 PM »

I don't have a problem with it, really. Once Inks disappeared in a puff of logic and he was no longer around to give out 10-point infractions for piddling crimes, it worked fine.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2015, 05:06:43 PM »

I don't have a problem with it, really. Once Inks disappeared in a puff of logic and he was no longer around to give out 10-point infractions for piddling crimes, it worked fine.

Yes. It's also a very effective way to mute obvious trolls and socks.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 05:53:09 PM »

I don't have a problem with it, really. Once Inks disappeared in a puff of logic and he was no longer around to give out 10-point infractions for piddling crimes, it worked fine.

Yes. It's also a very effective way to mute obvious trolls and socks.

Like all systems, the issue isn't it's existence (since it DOES effectively deal with trolls) but its abuse.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2015, 10:57:54 PM »

I don't have a problem with it, really. Once Inks disappeared in a puff of logic and he was no longer around to give out 10-point infractions for piddling crimes, it worked fine.

Yes. It's also a very effective way to mute obvious trolls and socks.

Surely, that can be done by another means then having to assign 50 points to the post of an obvious troll or sock.

I say scrap it. It was created as I recall to reign in Hamilton and his socks though I might be wrong on that. And guess what, it failed miserably at this considering he went four years as a contributing poster causing no harm to anyone, before someone finally made the connection using posts from four years ago. And that only happened because of his concidental hiatus coinciding to the time that another unrelated poster was unbanned and then rebanned.

Since then it has only contributed to the sanitizing us of disenting political views and allowed people to take out their personal animousities in an attempt to drive up posters points.

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dead0man
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2015, 12:09:08 AM »

I don't really care one way or the other, but the argument that the mods can abuse it is silly.  If the mods want you gone, having the point system or not isn't going to change anything.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 11:48:19 AM »

I don't have a problem with it, really. Once Inks disappeared in a puff of logic and he was no longer around to give out 10-point infractions for piddling crimes, it worked fine.

Yes. It's also a very effective way to mute obvious trolls and socks.

Surely, that can be done by another means then having to assign 50 points to the post of an obvious troll or sock.

I say scrap it. It was created as I recall to reign in Hamilton and his socks though I might be wrong on that.

I believe it was inspired by a need to handle Libertras' trolling.
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Torie
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2015, 11:54:48 AM »

I don't have a problem with it, really. Once Inks disappeared in a puff of logic and he was no longer around to give out 10-point infractions for piddling crimes, it worked fine.

Yes. It's also a very effective way to mute obvious trolls and socks.

Surely, that can be done by another means then having to assign 50 points to the post of an obvious troll or sock.

I say scrap it. It was created as I recall to reign in Hamilton and his socks though I might be wrong on that. And guess what, it failed miserably at this considering he went four years as a contributing poster causing no harm to anyone, before someone finally made the connection using posts from four years ago. And that only happened because of his concidental hiatus coinciding to the time that another unrelated poster was unbanned and then rebanned.

Since then it has only contributed to the sanitizing us of disenting political views and allowed people to take out their personal animousities in an attempt to drive up posters points.


It is my opinion that most of what I view as meritless reports result in a no action decision. More than half the reports result in no action, perhaps two thirds of them. As I said before, my view is that the point system neither does much harm or good. And I have no problem really in seeing the point system go, as long as posts that result in an action being taken against a poster are readily available for review later by the Mods, if they need to decide what to do about a poster, and all the Mods have a mute button to use in emergencies.
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Joe Biden 2020
BushOklahoma
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2015, 12:14:56 PM »

I think it's a decent method of dealing with offenders.  It's not perfect, but no system is flawless.  It can be subjective in its administering, but sometimes it has to be to determine exactly what category a particular offense falls into.  I agree it has gotten a lot better post-Inks, but again no matter what is done, Dave cannot make everyone happy.  There will always be dissenters no matter what he does.  If there is a better system out there, then I'm all for trying it out, but if the consensus is to keep the point system, I'd be okay with that, too.  I really don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.  I might lean toward keeping it, but I'm not adamant about it.
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2015, 01:59:32 PM »

We had less trolls prior to its creation. There is a reason for that.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2015, 09:31:08 PM »

It's no good.

It was obviously involved to deal with trolls (by having an objective criteria for bans). It's a failure. It doesn't reduce controversies about bans and it's uch more efficient to directly ban trolls than making the long trip to 50 points when the result is painfully obvious from the beginning.

Add to that the very unequal application (some mods don't use it, the same infraction is worth a very different number of points depending on the mod) and bad memory from their manic use by Inks, I'm not sure it's salvageable.
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DS0816
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« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2015, 12:18:19 AM »

I argue it does more harm than good.  In spirit it is supposed to be a fair, consistent way to keep problem posters in check.

Instead, it deeply alienates good posters who get caught up by overzealous mods or who make an occasional poo on the living room floor.

It doesn't really keep problem posters in check.

Its application is subjective according to the many different mods with many different moderation approaches. 

It promotes a culture of toxicity among the community and plays the main role in the "us vs. them" mentality between mods and the community at large.  I do not remember this being an issue prior to the point system being in place.

I argue to just dump it.  Let mods delete posts and let the modadmins place posters on mod review, temp ban, or permaban posters.

Agreed.

But, I don't own this site. Dave Leip does. He runs it however he will. And, evidently, he doesn't do it alone. So, we could have God [Dave Leip] or God and His Trusted Followers (Dave Leip with his trusted cast of supporting players, a.k.a. moderators).

If people find being at this site so personally important to them, each applicable individual will keep himself/herself in control enough not to get booted out of here. (This isn't applicable to anyone with any mental and/or health problems.) Those who fail with that end up getting taken out of here like they are garbage.

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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2015, 08:40:42 PM »

I think it's a decent method of dealing with offenders.  It's not perfect, but no system is flawless.  It can be subjective in its administering, but sometimes it has to be to determine exactly what category a particular offense falls into.  I agree it has gotten a lot better post-Inks, but again no matter what is done, Dave cannot make everyone happy.  There will always be dissenters no matter what he does.  If there is a better system out there, then I'm all for trying it out, but if the consensus is to keep the point system, I'd be okay with that, too.  I really don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.  I might lean toward keeping it, but I'm not adamant about it.

Says the guy whose idea it was.
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Joe Biden 2020
BushOklahoma
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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2015, 09:25:34 PM »

I think it's a decent method of dealing with offenders.  It's not perfect, but no system is flawless.  It can be subjective in its administering, but sometimes it has to be to determine exactly what category a particular offense falls into.  I agree it has gotten a lot better post-Inks, but again no matter what is done, Dave cannot make everyone happy.  There will always be dissenters no matter what he does.  If there is a better system out there, then I'm all for trying it out, but if the consensus is to keep the point system, I'd be okay with that, too.  I really don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.  I might lean toward keeping it, but I'm not adamant about it.

Says the guy whose idea it was.

I could be wrong, but it's institution had nothing to do with me.  I just supported it.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2015, 08:50:18 AM »

Have you all checked your death point totals this morning?
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Joe Biden 2020
BushOklahoma
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« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2015, 09:11:23 AM »

Have you all checked your death point totals this morning?


It's not there.  I guess I went from 97 death points to N/A.
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