Do you support the bans of Tweed, BK and AdamGriffin?
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  Do you support the bans of Tweed, BK and AdamGriffin?
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Poll
Question: Do you support the bans of Tweed, BK and AdamGriffin?
#1
Yes, all three
 
#2
Only Tweed
 
#3
Only BK
 
#4
Only AdamGriffin
 
#5
Both Tweed and BK
 
#6
Both Tweed and AdamGriffin
 
#7
Both BK and AdamGriffin
 
#8
None of them
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 123

Author Topic: Do you support the bans of Tweed, BK and AdamGriffin?  (Read 4460 times)
Mr. Morden
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« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2015, 01:30:40 AM »

I would be stunned if BRTD has not already started working on a Downfall video about this week's events.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2015, 02:49:18 AM »

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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2015, 06:36:25 AM »

Tweed ahould be wiped off the internet and possibly changed with a crime. BK should be allowed to come back after a couple months. I'm not sure about Griffin but I would also hope his ban is temporary.
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morgieb
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« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2015, 07:57:17 AM »

Tweed needed to go. I don't have quite the same words that Antonio or Joe Republic did but I did use an expletive against him on AAD and yeah it was a very bad act.

I see why BK was banned but given the circumstances I hope she is allowed back when her issues are sorted.

Griffin shouldn't be banned. The case (unless I'm missing something) against him is pretty flimsy tstl, there's no evidence he knew about the personal/sensitive information was leaked, and more importantly how the information was accessed, and also the information he gave wasn't anything special.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2015, 09:55:28 AM »

So just so I'm clear -- none of you know the full circumstances behind any of these three peoples' actions and yet you all seem to know exactly what punishment each person deserves, yes?
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politicus
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« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2015, 10:11:55 AM »

So just so I'm clear -- none of you know the full circumstances behind any of these three peoples' actions and yet you all seem to know exactly what punishment each person deserves, yes?

You got it.

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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2015, 10:39:02 AM »

So just so I'm clear -- none of you know the full circumstances behind any of these three peoples' actions and yet you all seem to know exactly what punishment each person deserves, yes?

we know more than you think
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2015, 10:50:20 AM »

Punishment does not align with my values system
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Simfan34
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« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2015, 03:03:09 PM »

Cross-posted:

Personal info was leaked, which I think explains in part why the moderators-- or at least some of them-- seem to be taking such a hard line on this. They're angry that those sorts of things were leaked, and that Bacon King told them he had been hacked when he'd actually given the password to Tweed. In a way it's somewhat reminiscent of the circumstances behind my banning where the moderators were effectively led on a wild goose chase. They weren't too pleased about that-- and I had misled them about something much more minor than their own personal and sensitive information being leaked. I can understand why they're reacting like this.

For BK I imagine things will improve with time. For AG it would really come down to just how much he knew about what Tweed was doing.
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Torie
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« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2015, 05:04:11 PM »
« Edited: July 23, 2015, 05:09:15 PM by Torie »

You know, we can say it once, twice, a million times, that all of this is being carefully considered, the facts are still being gathered on some issues, and the Mods are focused on that, and that all of the Mods want this to be Dave's decision about the punishments, because these incidents are so personal to him and his site, and that he is evaluating it all, but is distracted by other issues, and not everything has been sewed up yet, and his decision I don't think will be based much on what is posted here, but that has as much impact as a fart in a windstorm. (This long winded sentence is going to drive Al crazy Tongue)

One thing I will say. I have been impressed by Dave's analytical abilities, and to understand the issues, and for that matter the legal and ethical aspects of this, so I am confident his decision will not be made lightly, and it will be made by a very capable and fair person. I further know that he cares very much about this Forum and about all of you, and is deeply concerned by all that has gone on.

Carry on. Sorry for the interruption in the usual programming.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2015, 05:08:00 PM »


Nor does common sense, apparently.
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Alcon
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« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2015, 05:08:13 PM »

Cross-posted:

Personal info was leaked, which I think explains in part why the moderators-- or at least some of them-- seem to be taking such a hard line on this. They're angry that those sorts of things were leaked, and that Bacon King told them he had been hacked when he'd actually given the password to Tweed. In a way it's somewhat reminiscent of the circumstances behind my banning where the moderators were effectively led on a wild goose chase. They weren't too pleased about that-- and I had misled them about something much more minor than their own personal and sensitive information being leaked. I can understand why they're reacting like this.

For BK I imagine things will improve with time. For AG it would really come down to just how much he knew about what Tweed was doing.

I want to make it clear that these decisions were not made based on any emotional reaction.  The situation was upsetting for the same reason the bans were necessary -- it was a complicated, elaborate violation and breach of trust.  That made it an urgent situation which necessitated putting stop-gap measures (provisional bans) into place.

In other words, this wasn't a matter of punishment; this was a matter of restraint and crisis management.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2015, 06:09:41 PM »

Ftr, given how closely Dave has been involved in this, I am assuming that he will make the call on what happens with all of these bans.  It is possible that the Adam ban will be shortened or rescinded completely and/or that the BK ban will be shortened, but it is up to him.

However, there is also the matter of the hack attempts with the "reset password" emails that Dave is looking at, which is more urgent than making a final decision on these bans.  Please be patient…
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JerryArkansas
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« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2015, 06:17:22 PM »

Morgen, can you give us more info on the attempted hackings.  I myself have had several emails trying to reset my password.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2015, 06:25:24 PM »

Morgen, can you give us more info on the attempted hackings.  I myself have had several emails trying to reset my password.

As long as the hacker doesn't guess the answer to your "security question", you're safe.  They can keep trying, and each time they try you'll get an email (and that's annoying, and I'm sorry about that), but that doesn't mean that your account has been breached.  This means that you should not use a security question that someone could easily guess by going on an internet treasure hunt for your identity.  In fact, Dave recommends that people change their settings so that they're not using a security question at all (he explains this in a thread on The Atlas board).

However, it might help us figure out who it is doing the hacking if you PM us the IP that's listed in the emails you're getting.  Torie already contacted some folks about that, but send us the IP if you still happen to have the emails in question, and haven't deleted them.  Not everybody is getting them from the same IP.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2015, 06:31:11 PM »

Morgen, can you give us more info on the attempted hackings.  I myself have had several emails trying to reset my password.

As long as the hacker doesn't guess the answer to your "security question", you're safe.  They can keep trying, and each time they try you'll get an email (and that's annoying, and I'm sorry about that), but that doesn't mean that your account has been breached.  This means that you should not use a security question that someone could easily guess by going on an internet treasure hunt for your identity.  In fact, Dave recommends that people change their settings so that they're not using a security question at all (he explains this in a thread on The Atlas board).

mine is an incredibly dumb inside joke that's never been posted online so i think i'm fine
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Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
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« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2015, 06:32:06 PM »

Yes to a perma for Tweed, BK's should be temporary (few months), Griffin shouldn't have been banned at all.
I dont like permabans period...but I agree with this in spirit.
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Leinad
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« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2015, 05:24:03 AM »
« Edited: July 24, 2015, 05:25:35 AM by Leinad, Southern Legislator »


From what I understand (not everything) that seems about right.


We seem to have similar values systems, then!

As I've said before, I can't see how Jesus would ever permanently ban someone.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=138934.0
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=205921.0

Now temp bans I've come around to realizing are perhaps something I could see Jesus doing, but never a permaban. I mean Jesus didn't even "permaban" Saul/Paul, whose crimes against Christians were far worse than the crimes of Tweed against the forum. So any type of permanent ban I just see as wrong.

Jesus only unbanned people when He knew they were definitely better, though. That would be harder to do in this case, because none of us are omniscient deities. I'm very much against the death penalty, but, well, being permabanned from Atlas is hardly death.
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TNF
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« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2015, 12:21:41 PM »

Tweed should be perma-banned, BK should be given a temp ban, and Adam Griffin should be immediately unbanned
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SATW
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« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2015, 12:34:02 PM »

Tweed should be perma-banned, BK should be given a temp ban, and Adam Griffin should be immediately unbanned
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #45 on: July 24, 2015, 11:58:03 PM »

I support banning all of them in the sense that they'll make a great group of AAD exclusive posters but my conscience forced me to vote for the "none of them" option.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2015, 10:48:20 AM »
« Edited: July 25, 2015, 11:54:17 AM by Winter has come »

- Tweed should be permabanned and there really is no legitimate argument one can make for letting him stay or come back in the future.  TNF already perfectly explained why Tweed shouldn't be allowed to remain in this community.

- From the information available, I personally don't think BK should be permabanned, but the stopgap ban was perfectly understandable given the circumstances.  That said, Dave is clearly a thoughtful and reasonable guy from what I've seen and the best thing is probably to wait to here what he even ends up deciding.

- Griffin is a tougher case because we (the community at-large) don't know what we don't know.  The impression I got from the way that the mods have discussed this is that there is more to this case than just the info that has been made public and that a final verdict hasn't been reached (I believe Alcon has said repeatedly that this was stopgap measure).  That said, it also sounds like (from the bits of info that are public) there is at least some legitimate evidence that Griffin knew what Tweed was doing and didn't tell anyone, may've somehow tried to cover up or have been dishonest about his role in the modleaks stuff, and was willing to help Tweed set up that website.  

Ultimately, the community (myself included) just don't know enough of the information and evidence to make some snap judgement here, whether it be that Griffin deserved to be banned or that he didn't deserve to be banned.  There are clearly important details that we don't know yet.  Waiting for Dave and the mods to get around to carefully debating this case doesn't feel as good emotionally as taking a side and making definitive or belligerent statements, but upon further reflection, reserving judgement until we know more of the facts is really the best thing the community at-large can do in Griffin's case even if for no other reason than we simply don't know enough to do anything else at this point.

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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2015, 10:51:21 AM »

as of now 76% support tweed's ban, 32% support bq's ban and 17% support griff's ban
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2015, 02:38:47 PM »

What did Tweed do?
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Fuzzybigfoot
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« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2015, 02:42:37 PM »

Tweed should be perma-banned, BK should be given a temp ban, and Adam Griffin should be immediately unbanned
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