Opinion of Jonathan Pollard?

[Zioneer]

Since he may be released soon.

[SATW]

Honestly, this is an issue where I didn't see eye to eye with my fellow Zionists and Pro-Israel lobbyists for a long time.

However, he should have been released waaaaay before now, like in 2001. He served his time for the crimes he did indeed commit and should NOT have been held for so long. Also, considering that the U.S. spies on allies consistently, I think that it's hypocritical to completely play the victim card. In 1987, I believe a year after Pollard was arrested, Israel arrested an American spy in Haifa.

All and all I'm happy to see him released.


However, I do not consider him a FF in any shape or form, but will not vote HP either. I voted Other, aka neutral.

[MalaspinaGold]

I prefer the Rosenbergs tbh.

[PJ]

Huge HP, but I'm fine with his release as political negotiation to gain support for the Iran deal. His spying was based purely on monetary reasons, which I have little respect for.

[Hydera]

It would be hilarious if they sent him to Iran instead, just to see the reactions in israel.

[SATW]

It would be hilarious if they sent him to Iran instead, just to see the reactions in israel.

Israel's reaction would be less ridiculous then the U.S.'s if an American spy was given to an enemy

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Honestly, this is an issue where I didn't see eye to eye with my fellow Zionists and Pro-Israel lobbyists for a long time.

However, he should have been released waaaaay before now, like in 2001. He served his time for the crimes he did indeed commit and should NOT have been held for so long. Also, considering that the U.S. spies on allies consistently, I think that it's hypocritical to completely play the victim card. In 1987, I believe a year after Pollard was arrested, Israel arrested an American spy in Haifa.

All and all I'm happy to see him released.


However, I do not consider him a FF in any shape or form, but will not vote HP either. I voted Other, aka neutral.

This. There's no equivalent case of a spy for an ally who got a similar sentence, and so much about his case has been classified that it's impossible for me to trust the government.

There's zero grounds to oppose his parole at this point, given that he's reached the end of his mandated sentence barring extenuating circumstances.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

It would be hilarious if they sent him to Iran instead, just to see the reactions in israel.

Israel's reaction would be less ridiculous then the U.S.'s if an American spy was given to an enemy

As far as I'm concerned, it would be a direct bait for Israel to launch an attack on Iran, since the US just handed them an Israeli citizen as well as a valuable intelligence asset. If Obama wanted to start a war, he couldn't possibly find a better way.

Any direct diplomatic retaliation against the US likely wouldn't happen, because Obama is on his way out and Israel is smart enough not to do anything that would jeopardize the much-needed reset that will come after he leaves.

[Indy Texas]

Also, considering that the U.S. spies on allies consistently, I think that it's hypocritical to completely play the victim card. In 1987, I believe a year after Pollard was arrested, Israel arrested an American spy in Haifa.

Spying isn't the problem; it's just a fact of foreign relations. But spying on your own country for another country is an extremely shameful thing to do. The fact that he was doing it for financial gain just makes him an even more disgusting person.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Even people who are otherwise uncriticially pro-Israel ought to be able to agree that what Pollard specifically did and his specific reasons for doing it were despicable.

[DavidB.]

Honestly, this is an issue where I didn't see eye to eye with my fellow Zionists and Pro-Israel lobbyists for a long time.

However, he should have been released waaaaay before now, like in 2001. He served his time for the crimes he did indeed commit and should NOT have been held for so long. Also, considering that the U.S. spies on allies consistently, I think that it's hypocritical to completely play the victim card. In 1987, I believe a year after Pollard was arrested, Israel arrested an American spy in Haifa.

All and all I'm happy to see him released.

This. He did commit crimes (I don't like the fact that he earned money for that) and I can understand that the US needed to put him in jail for some time because that's what you do when people with access to classified information spread this information. However, he has been held for way too long. He has been treated very unfairly and the fact that this has to do with him being Jewish (and with too many American Jews being afraid to stand up for their fellow Jews) doesn't feel good to me at all. High time to release him.

[SATW]

Also, considering that the U.S. spies on allies consistently, I think that it's hypocritical to completely play the victim card. In 1987, I believe a year after Pollard was arrested, Israel arrested an American spy in Haifa.

Spying isn't the problem; it's just a fact of foreign relations. But spying on your own country for another country is an extremely shameful thing to do. The fact that he was doing it for financial gain just makes him an even more disgusting person.

This American spy in Israel, Yosef Amit, was Israeli born and was in Shin Bet. So a very similar situation but without the money.

As I said, I do not consider Pollard a hero or a decent person (but he wasn't the most evil spy ever either). I have citizenship in both America and Israel, but my loyalty is first and foremost to the United States. So, Pollard is in no sense a symbol of pride for me.

[DavidB.]

Also, considering that the U.S. spies on allies consistently, I think that it's hypocritical to completely play the victim card. In 1987, I believe a year after Pollard was arrested, Israel arrested an American spy in Haifa.

Spying isn't the problem; it's just a fact of foreign relations. But spying on your own country for another country is an extremely shameful thing to do. The fact that he was doing it for financial gain just makes him an even more disgusting person.

This American spy in Israel, Yosef Amit, was Israeli born and was in Shin Bet. So a very similar situation but without the money.

As I said, I do not consider Pollard a hero or a decent person (but he wasn't the most evil spy ever either). I have citizenship in both America and Israel, but my loyalty is first and foremost to the United States. So, Pollard is in no sense a symbol of pride for me.

Awww, you're such a good American. *claps*

[SATW]

Also, considering that the U.S. spies on allies consistently, I think that it's hypocritical to completely play the victim card. In 1987, I believe a year after Pollard was arrested, Israel arrested an American spy in Haifa.

Spying isn't the problem; it's just a fact of foreign relations. But spying on your own country for another country is an extremely shameful thing to do. The fact that he was doing it for financial gain just makes him an even more disgusting person.

This American spy in Israel, Yosef Amit, was Israeli born and was in Shin Bet. So a very similar situation but without the money.

As I said, I do not consider Pollard a hero or a decent person (but he wasn't the most evil spy ever either). I have citizenship in both America and Israel, but my loyalty is first and foremost to the United States. So, Pollard is in no sense a symbol of pride for me.

Awww, you're such a good American. *claps*

As along as the United States is a good place for Jewish people to live and as long as the United States is strong allies with Israel I really have no reason to support bad spying operations in the name of either country on each other.

[DavidB.]

Also, considering that the U.S. spies on allies consistently, I think that it's hypocritical to completely play the victim card. In 1987, I believe a year after Pollard was arrested, Israel arrested an American spy in Haifa.

States also kill people all the time and oppress their own citizens. The nature of the state is to define what it does in terms of its interests, and what other states do as against the aforementioned interests. In the anarchic international system that at points mirrors Hobbes' state of nature, we have every right to act in a rational manner.

Your third sentence doesn't logically follow your first two sentences. A realist view on the way states act (in a descriptive sense; "is") doesn't imply that the perceived reality is necessarily "moral" or "good" (in a prescriptive sense; "ought to be").

[DavidB.]

Also, considering that the U.S. spies on allies consistently, I think that it's hypocritical to completely play the victim card. In 1987, I believe a year after Pollard was arrested, Israel arrested an American spy in Haifa.

States also kill people all the time and oppress their own citizens. The nature of the state is to define what it does in terms of its interests, and what other states do as against the aforementioned interests. In the anarchic international system that at points mirrors Hobbes' state of nature, we have every right to act in a rational manner.

Your third sentence doesn't logically follow your first two sentences. A realist view on the way states act (in a descriptive sense; "is") doesn't imply that the perceived reality is necessarily "moral" or "good" (in a prescriptive sense; "ought to be").

That's why I factored in Hobbes as well, so as to add the moral facet.

Calling the international sphere Hobbesian (which is something I agree with) doesn't have to imply a judgment either.

[The Mikado]

Also, considering that the U.S. spies on allies consistently, I think that it's hypocritical to completely play the victim card.

Every country (that has the means) spies on every other country it has interests in. If spies are caught bad things tend to happen to them. I'm not sure what fundamentally separates Pollard from, say, Aldrich Ames or Robert Hanssen on that front.

There's a lot of value to arresting spies, not least of which is exactly that element you mentioned above. Should the need ever come to do a prisoner exchange with Israel if they catch one of our spies, we could hand Pollard over.

It's just bad policy to give away potential bargaining chips like that. We have something Israel wants (Pollard), and should the circumstances align that Israel has something we want we could trade Pollard for it. Giving him up for free is just foolish.

EDIT: Should it turn out that we're releasing Pollard in return for Netanyahu lifting overt efforts to block the Iran deal, I might revise my opinion. That would be a good bargain.