Megathread: Congressional Vote on the Iran Deal

[moderatevoter]

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) is a yes. That's big.

EDIT: Sen. Shaheen (D-NH) too.

[Torie]

Menendez, Schumer, Cardin and maybe even some other Democratic senators (Booker?) will eventually vote against it, but they won't get to 13, which means that Obama's veto won't be overridden.

Whatever the chances of it being overriden in the Senate, it's effectively 0% in the House, so the Senate might as well just stay home. I assume the next POTUS can just negate the whole thing, since it is not a treaty, and this weird process was just a meaningless bone Obama tossed out to get something else done, I forget what. That question come to think of it, should be brought up in the debates.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Menendez, Schumer, Cardin and maybe even some other Democratic senators (Booker?) will eventually vote against it, but they won't get to 13, which means that Obama's veto won't be overridden.

Whatever the chances of it being overriden in the Senate, it's effectively 0% in the House, so the Senate might as well just stay home. I assume the next POTUS can just negate the whole thing, since it is not a treaty, and this weird process was just a meaningless bone Obama tossed out to get something else done, I forget what. That question come to think of it, should be brought up in the debates.

President Bush/walker/whoever could, but they'd let the U.S. Look pretty stupid and isolated on the international scene.

[Хahar 🤔]

Menendez, Schumer, Cardin and maybe even some other Democratic senators (Booker?) will eventually vote against it, but they won't get to 13, which means that Obama's veto won't be overridden.

Whatever the chances of it being overriden in the Senate, it's effectively 0% in the House, so the Senate might as well just stay home. I assume the next POTUS can just negate the whole thing, since it is not a treaty, and this weird process was just a meaningless bone Obama tossed out to get something else done, I forget what. That question come to think of it, should be brought up in the debates.

President Bush/walker/whoever could, but they'd let the U.S. Look pretty stupid and isolated on the international scene.

I believe that "looking pretty stupid and isolated on the international scene" is in fact part of the Republican Party platform.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Menendez, Schumer, Cardin and maybe even some other Democratic senators (Booker?) will eventually vote against it, but they won't get to 13, which means that Obama's veto won't be overridden.

Whatever the chances of it being overriden in the Senate, it's effectively 0% in the House, so the Senate might as well just stay home. I assume the next POTUS can just negate the whole thing, since it is not a treaty, and this weird process was just a meaningless bone Obama tossed out to get something else done, I forget what. That question come to think of it, should be brought up in the debates.

President Bush/walker/whoever could, but they'd let the U.S. Look pretty stupid and isolated on the international scene.

Apparently Republicans are clamoring for the days of W. when the US were the most hated nation in the world.

[SATW]

Wouldn't Schumer seriously damage his chances of becoming the new Dem leader by voting against his own caucus on such critical issue? Real Democrats certainly shouldn't let that slip.

I think it might hurt him, but if he doesn't actively try to convince other Democrats and the bill will be passed, then he will be forgiven. Other Democrats will understand that he is not to be envied, as a Jewish senator in New York, the blue state were opposition against the Iran deal might be the highest. Supporting the deal might lead to a serious primary.

Democratic Jews don't care about foreign policy nearly as much as everyone seems to think. Otherwise they'd be solid Republicans by now. Also, despite what Netanyahu wants us to believe, he does not in fact speak for all Jews.

If Schumer fears he'll be primaried, it's just further proof that Democrats need to grow a spine.

Neither do you.

But a combination of Bibi, Bennett, Herzog, Lapid, Livni, and others do speak for Jews worldwide, and they all oppose this bad Iran deal.

No. They speak for Israel. Plenty of Jews don't agree with current Israeli government or parties. And that's without some, like the Outremont Jews here in Québec, thinking Israel is illegitimate and "hereric", because Jews shouldn't return to the Holy Land until God allows them to do so.

Yes, there are crazy people in every grouping of people. Satmar Jews are the American version of that. 

A better example would be ultra-secular Jews who do not identify with Israel, but in most cases these Jews also don't strongly identify with Judaism either. Which is fine, I disagree with it strongly and on moral grounds, but one will do what one wants to do.

But, for the most part, Jews who somewhat strongly or strongly identify with the culture, religion etc...have Israel as a top 5 or top 10 issue.

Israel doesn't exist for the mere fact of existing. It exists to better Jewish life, including Diaspora Jewish life. It may not be very successful in the latter, but Israel definitely does more for Diaspora Jews then any political party has or will do.

This continuous effort to split Jews and Israel from each other is not surprising to me, because ultimately the only thing the far-left wants is 100% obedience on all issues.

Also, the Security establishment in Israel is who? Dagan, Halevy? People who are irrelevant in today's world and just want to win the love of the left?

[Horus]

Wouldn't Schumer seriously damage his chances of becoming the new Dem leader by voting against his own caucus on such critical issue? Real Democrats certainly shouldn't let that slip.

I think it might hurt him, but if he doesn't actively try to convince other Democrats and the bill will be passed, then he will be forgiven. Other Democrats will understand that he is not to be envied, as a Jewish senator in New York, the blue state were opposition against the Iran deal might be the highest. Supporting the deal might lead to a serious primary.

Democratic Jews don't care about foreign policy nearly as much as everyone seems to think. Otherwise they'd be solid Republicans by now. Also, despite what Netanyahu wants us to believe, he does not in fact speak for all Jews.

If Schumer fears he'll be primaried, it's just further proof that Democrats need to grow a spine.

Neither do you.

But a combination of Bibi, Bennett, Herzog, Lapid, Livni, and others do speak for Jews worldwide, and they all oppose this bad Iran deal.

No. They speak for Israel. Plenty of Jews don't agree with current Israeli government or parties. And that's without some, like the Outremont Jews here in Québec, thinking Israel is illegitimate and "hereric", because Jews shouldn't return to the Holy Land until God allows them to do so.

Yes, there are crazy people in every grouping of people. Satmar Jews are the American version of that. 

A better example would be ultra-secular Jews who do not identify with Israel, but in most cases these Jews also don't strongly identify with Judaism either. Which is fine, I disagree with it strongly and on moral grounds, but one will do what one wants to do.

But, for the most part, Jews who somewhat strongly or strongly identify with the culture, religion etc...have Israel as a top 5 or top 10 issue.

Israel doesn't exist for the mere fact of existing. It exists to better Jewish life, including Diaspora Jewish life. It may not be very successful in the latter, but Israel definitely does more for Diaspora Jews then any political party has or will do.

This continuous effort to split Jews and Israel from each other is not surprising to me, because ultimately the only thing the far-left wants is 100% obedience on all issues.

Also, the Security establishment in Israel is who? Dagan, Halevy? People who are irrelevant in today's world and just want to win the love of the left?

Israel has done nothing but embarrass and disappoint me.

[Horus]

Schumer to oppose deal. What a piece of scum.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/chuck-schumer-planning-to-break-with-obama-oppose-iran-deal_55c3f7e9e4b0d9b743dba71d?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&section=politics

[Gass3268]

Schumer to oppose deal. What a piece of scum.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/chuck-schumer-planning-to-break-with-obama-oppose-iran-deal_55c3f7e9e4b0d9b743dba71d?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&section=politics

The fact that he is going to be the future Senate Leader of the Democratic Party is sickening.

[SATW]

@Horus: lol cool story bro

#SchumerTheShomer

[Indy Texas]

Wouldn't Schumer seriously damage his chances of becoming the new Dem leader by voting against his own caucus on such critical issue? Real Democrats certainly shouldn't let that slip.

I think it might hurt him, but if he doesn't actively try to convince other Democrats and the bill will be passed, then he will be forgiven. Other Democrats will understand that he is not to be envied, as a Jewish senator in New York, the blue state were opposition against the Iran deal might be the highest. Supporting the deal might lead to a serious primary.

Democratic Jews don't care about foreign policy nearly as much as everyone seems to think. Otherwise they'd be solid Republicans by now. Also, despite what Netanyahu wants us to believe, he does not in fact speak for all Jews.

If Schumer fears he'll be primaried, it's just further proof that Democrats need to grow a spine.

Neither do you.

But a combination of Bibi, Bennett, Herzog, Lapid, Livni, and others do speak for Jews worldwide, and they all oppose this bad Iran deal.

No. They speak for Israel. Plenty of Jews don't agree with current Israeli government or parties. And that's without some, like the Outremont Jews here in Québec, thinking Israel is illegitimate and "hereric", because Jews shouldn't return to the Holy Land until God allows them to do so.

Yes, there are crazy people in every grouping of people. Satmar Jews are the American version of that. 

A better example would be ultra-secular Jews who do not identify with Israel, but in most cases these Jews also don't strongly identify with Judaism either. Which is fine, I disagree with it strongly and on moral grounds, but one will do what one wants to do.

But, for the most part, Jews who somewhat strongly or strongly identify with the culture, religion etc...have Israel as a top 5 or top 10 issue.

Israel doesn't exist for the mere fact of existing. It exists to better Jewish life, including Diaspora Jewish life. It may not be very successful in the latter, but Israel definitely does more for Diaspora Jews then any political party has or will do.

This continuous effort to split Jews and Israel from each other is not surprising to me, because ultimately the only thing the far-left wants is 100% obedience on all issues.

Also, the Security establishment in Israel is who? Dagan, Halevy? People who are irrelevant in today's world and just want to win the love of the left?

Fine, I'll bite. What does Israel do for Jews who don't live in Israel, and may never have been to Israel and may never go anywhere near Israel?

[Gass3268]

What 12 other Democrats are going to vote no now? Currently there are 15 confirmed yes votes, 8 leaning yes (for the sake of this I am going to assume they remain a yes), and 22 undecideds.

Undecided:

Sen. Tammy Baldwin (Wis.)
Sen. Michael Bennet (Colo.)
Sen. Cory Booker (N.J.)
Sen. Maria Cantwell (Wash.)
Sen. Ben Cardin (Md.)
Sen. Bob Casey, Jr. (Pa.)
Sen. Chris Coons (Del.)
Sen. Joe Donnelly (Ind.)
Sen. Al Franken (Minn.)
Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.)
Sen. Mazie Hirono (Hawaii)
Sen. Amy Klobuchar (Minn.)
Sen. Ed Markey (Mass.)
Sen. Bob Menendez (N.J.)
Sen. Barbara Mikulski (Md.)
Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.)
Sen. Gary Peters (Mich.)
Sen. Debbie Stabenow (Mich.)
Sen. Jon Tester (Mont.)
Sen. Mark Warner (Va.)
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (R.I.)
Sen. Ron Wyden (Ore.)

Where are 12 more defections out of that list? Menedez seems like an obvious choice, but after that I don't where the other 11 come from.

[moderatevoter]

I think Murray and Cantwell will both come home. Iran desperately needs new airplanes for its civilian airlines, and Boeing badly wants to sell them planes. Given that Gillibrand and Nelson both are in favor, I don't know which other 12 Senate Democrats would defect.

[SATW]

Menendez is an obvious one. Cardin will likely follow Schumer. Wyden, Stabenow, Bennet, Warner are also votes that could realistically follow, I think. Booker received the most support from Jewish, Israel groups in 2014 of ANY candidate, so he might as well.

so, 8 there, possibly. Donnelly, since he's a conservadem, maybe Casey too, so 10. Baldwin has been strongly voting with Pro-Israel groups all year, so she's a possibility. 11.

After that it gets hard to tell.



Whitehouse will vote for the deal (he gave a nasty bashing to Bibi in March and didn't go to the speech in congress)

[windjammer]

Schumer shouldn't become majority leader because of that. But unfortunately he will.


That won't matter in the end, this deal will stick.

[Gass3268]

Menendez is an obvious one. Cardin will likely follow Schumer. Wyden, Stabenow, Bennet, Warner are also votes that could realistically follow, I think. Booker received the most support from Jewish, Israel groups in 2014 of ANY candidate, so he might as well.

so, 8 there, possibly. Donnelly, since he's a conservadem, maybe Casey too, so 10. Baldwin has been strongly voting with Pro-Israel groups all year, so she's a possibility. 11.

After that it gets hard to tell.

Whitehouse will vote for the deal (he gave a nasty bashing to Bibi in March and didn't go to the speech in congress)

Baldwin supports the deal

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Wouldn't Schumer seriously damage his chances of becoming the new Dem leader by voting against his own caucus on such critical issue? Real Democrats certainly shouldn't let that slip.

I think it might hurt him, but if he doesn't actively try to convince other Democrats and the bill will be passed, then he will be forgiven. Other Democrats will understand that he is not to be envied, as a Jewish senator in New York, the blue state were opposition against the Iran deal might be the highest. Supporting the deal might lead to a serious primary.

Democratic Jews don't care about foreign policy nearly as much as everyone seems to think. Otherwise they'd be solid Republicans by now. Also, despite what Netanyahu wants us to believe, he does not in fact speak for all Jews.

If Schumer fears he'll be primaried, it's just further proof that Democrats need to grow a spine.

Neither do you.

But a combination of Bibi, Bennett, Herzog, Lapid, Livni, and others do speak for Jews worldwide, and they all oppose this bad Iran deal.

No. They speak for Israel. Plenty of Jews don't agree with current Israeli government or parties. And that's without some, like the Outremont Jews here in Québec, thinking Israel is illegitimate and "hereric", because Jews shouldn't return to the Holy Land until God allows them to do so.

Yes, there are crazy people in every grouping of people. Satmar Jews are the American version of that. 

A better example would be ultra-secular Jews who do not identify with Israel, but in most cases these Jews also don't strongly identify with Judaism either. Which is fine, I disagree with it strongly and on moral grounds, but one will do what one wants to do.

But, for the most part, Jews who somewhat strongly or strongly identify with the culture, religion etc...have Israel as a top 5 or top 10 issue.

Israel doesn't exist for the mere fact of existing. It exists to better Jewish life, including Diaspora Jewish life. It may not be very successful in the latter, but Israel definitely does more for Diaspora Jews then any political party has or will do.

This continuous effort to split Jews and Israel from each other is not surprising to me, because ultimately the only thing the far-left wants is 100% obedience on all issues.

Also, the Security establishment in Israel is who? Dagan, Halevy? People who are irrelevant in today's world and just want to win the love of the left?

Fine, I'll bite. What does Israel do for Jews who don't live in Israel, and may never have been to Israel and may never go anywhere near Israel?

Ensures that any country that decides their country will be better off without its Jewish population alive has a jacked-up, nuclear-capable Jewish state to deal with before they can do that.

Now, I don't think that's likely to be a problem in America any time soon, but that's one of like 5-10 countries I can confidently say that about.

[Gass3268]

Wouldn't Schumer seriously damage his chances of becoming the new Dem leader by voting against his own caucus on such critical issue? Real Democrats certainly shouldn't let that slip.

I think it might hurt him, but if he doesn't actively try to convince other Democrats and the bill will be passed, then he will be forgiven. Other Democrats will understand that he is not to be envied, as a Jewish senator in New York, the blue state were opposition against the Iran deal might be the highest. Supporting the deal might lead to a serious primary.

Democratic Jews don't care about foreign policy nearly as much as everyone seems to think. Otherwise they'd be solid Republicans by now. Also, despite what Netanyahu wants us to believe, he does not in fact speak for all Jews.

If Schumer fears he'll be primaried, it's just further proof that Democrats need to grow a spine.

Neither do you.

But a combination of Bibi, Bennett, Herzog, Lapid, Livni, and others do speak for Jews worldwide, and they all oppose this bad Iran deal.

No. They speak for Israel. Plenty of Jews don't agree with current Israeli government or parties. And that's without some, like the Outremont Jews here in Québec, thinking Israel is illegitimate and "hereric", because Jews shouldn't return to the Holy Land until God allows them to do so.

Yes, there are crazy people in every grouping of people. Satmar Jews are the American version of that. 

A better example would be ultra-secular Jews who do not identify with Israel, but in most cases these Jews also don't strongly identify with Judaism either. Which is fine, I disagree with it strongly and on moral grounds, but one will do what one wants to do.

But, for the most part, Jews who somewhat strongly or strongly identify with the culture, religion etc...have Israel as a top 5 or top 10 issue.

Israel doesn't exist for the mere fact of existing. It exists to better Jewish life, including Diaspora Jewish life. It may not be very successful in the latter, but Israel definitely does more for Diaspora Jews then any political party has or will do.

This continuous effort to split Jews and Israel from each other is not surprising to me, because ultimately the only thing the far-left wants is 100% obedience on all issues.

Also, the Security establishment in Israel is who? Dagan, Halevy? People who are irrelevant in today's world and just want to win the love of the left?

Fine, I'll bite. What does Israel do for Jews who don't live in Israel, and may never have been to Israel and may never go anywhere near Israel?

Ensures that any country that decides their country will be better off without its Jewish population alive has a jacked-up, nuclear-capable Jewish state to deal with before they can do that.

Now, I don't think that's likely to be a problem in America any time soon, but that's one of like 5-10 countries I can confidently say that about.

Illegal nuclear weapons I might add, just like India, North Korea and Pakistan.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Wouldn't Schumer seriously damage his chances of becoming the new Dem leader by voting against his own caucus on such critical issue? Real Democrats certainly shouldn't let that slip.

I think it might hurt him, but if he doesn't actively try to convince other Democrats and the bill will be passed, then he will be forgiven. Other Democrats will understand that he is not to be envied, as a Jewish senator in New York, the blue state were opposition against the Iran deal might be the highest. Supporting the deal might lead to a serious primary.

Democratic Jews don't care about foreign policy nearly as much as everyone seems to think. Otherwise they'd be solid Republicans by now. Also, despite what Netanyahu wants us to believe, he does not in fact speak for all Jews.

If Schumer fears he'll be primaried, it's just further proof that Democrats need to grow a spine.

Neither do you.

But a combination of Bibi, Bennett, Herzog, Lapid, Livni, and others do speak for Jews worldwide, and they all oppose this bad Iran deal.

No. They speak for Israel. Plenty of Jews don't agree with current Israeli government or parties. And that's without some, like the Outremont Jews here in Québec, thinking Israel is illegitimate and "hereric", because Jews shouldn't return to the Holy Land until God allows them to do so.

Yes, there are crazy people in every grouping of people. Satmar Jews are the American version of that. 

A better example would be ultra-secular Jews who do not identify with Israel, but in most cases these Jews also don't strongly identify with Judaism either. Which is fine, I disagree with it strongly and on moral grounds, but one will do what one wants to do.

But, for the most part, Jews who somewhat strongly or strongly identify with the culture, religion etc...have Israel as a top 5 or top 10 issue.

Israel doesn't exist for the mere fact of existing. It exists to better Jewish life, including Diaspora Jewish life. It may not be very successful in the latter, but Israel definitely does more for Diaspora Jews then any political party has or will do.

This continuous effort to split Jews and Israel from each other is not surprising to me, because ultimately the only thing the far-left wants is 100% obedience on all issues.

Also, the Security establishment in Israel is who? Dagan, Halevy? People who are irrelevant in today's world and just want to win the love of the left?

Fine, I'll bite. What does Israel do for Jews who don't live in Israel, and may never have been to Israel and may never go anywhere near Israel?

Ensures that any country that decides their country will be better off without its Jewish population alive has a jacked-up, nuclear-capable Jewish state to deal with before they can do that.

Now, I don't think that's likely to be a problem in America any time soon, but that's one of like 5-10 countries I can confidently say that about.

Illegal nuclear weapons I might add, just like India, North Korea and Pakistan.

Israel may have gotten the bomb before China, a good thirty years before any of those countries.

[MaxQue]

Wouldn't Schumer seriously damage his chances of becoming the new Dem leader by voting against his own caucus on such critical issue? Real Democrats certainly shouldn't let that slip.

I think it might hurt him, but if he doesn't actively try to convince other Democrats and the bill will be passed, then he will be forgiven. Other Democrats will understand that he is not to be envied, as a Jewish senator in New York, the blue state were opposition against the Iran deal might be the highest. Supporting the deal might lead to a serious primary.

Democratic Jews don't care about foreign policy nearly as much as everyone seems to think. Otherwise they'd be solid Republicans by now. Also, despite what Netanyahu wants us to believe, he does not in fact speak for all Jews.

If Schumer fears he'll be primaried, it's just further proof that Democrats need to grow a spine.

Neither do you.

But a combination of Bibi, Bennett, Herzog, Lapid, Livni, and others do speak for Jews worldwide, and they all oppose this bad Iran deal.

No. They speak for Israel. Plenty of Jews don't agree with current Israeli government or parties. And that's without some, like the Outremont Jews here in Québec, thinking Israel is illegitimate and "hereric", because Jews shouldn't return to the Holy Land until God allows them to do so.

Yes, there are crazy people in every grouping of people. Satmar Jews are the American version of that. 

A better example would be ultra-secular Jews who do not identify with Israel, but in most cases these Jews also don't strongly identify with Judaism either. Which is fine, I disagree with it strongly and on moral grounds, but one will do what one wants to do.

But, for the most part, Jews who somewhat strongly or strongly identify with the culture, religion etc...have Israel as a top 5 or top 10 issue.

Israel doesn't exist for the mere fact of existing. It exists to better Jewish life, including Diaspora Jewish life. It may not be very successful in the latter, but Israel definitely does more for Diaspora Jews then any political party has or will do.

This continuous effort to split Jews and Israel from each other is not surprising to me, because ultimately the only thing the far-left wants is 100% obedience on all issues.

Also, the Security establishment in Israel is who? Dagan, Halevy? People who are irrelevant in today's world and just want to win the love of the left?

Fine, I'll bite. What does Israel do for Jews who don't live in Israel, and may never have been to Israel and may never go anywhere near Israel?

Ensures that any country that decides their country will be better off without its Jewish population alive has a jacked-up, nuclear-capable Jewish state to deal with before they can do that.

Now, I don't think that's likely to be a problem in America any time soon, but that's one of like 5-10 countries I can confidently say that about.

Illegal nuclear weapons I might add, just like India, North Korea and Pakistan.

Israel may have gotten the bomb before China, a good thirty years before any of those countries.

Yes, but how it is relevant?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Illegal nuclear weapons I might add, just like India, North Korea and Pakistan.

Israel, India, and Pakistan never signed the NPT so the only thing that might be illegal about their nukes is if they stole some of the materials in them.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Illegal nuclear weapons I might add, just like India, North Korea and Pakistan.

Israel, India, and Pakistan never signed the NPT so the only thing that might be illegal about their nukes is if they stole some of the materials in them.

And Israel likely had their nukes ten years before the NPT anyway, which was my point in the previous post.

[MalaspinaGold]

Wouldn't Schumer seriously damage his chances of becoming the new Dem leader by voting against his own caucus on such critical issue? Real Democrats certainly shouldn't let that slip.

I think it might hurt him, but if he doesn't actively try to convince other Democrats and the bill will be passed, then he will be forgiven. Other Democrats will understand that he is not to be envied, as a Jewish senator in New York, the blue state were opposition against the Iran deal might be the highest. Supporting the deal might lead to a serious primary.

Democratic Jews don't care about foreign policy nearly as much as everyone seems to think. Otherwise they'd be solid Republicans by now. Also, despite what Netanyahu wants us to believe, he does not in fact speak for all Jews.

If Schumer fears he'll be primaried, it's just further proof that Democrats need to grow a spine.

Neither do you.

But a combination of Bibi, Bennett, Herzog, Lapid, Livni, and others do speak for Jews worldwide, and they all oppose this bad Iran deal.

No. They speak for Israel. Plenty of Jews don't agree with current Israeli government or parties. And that's without some, like the Outremont Jews here in Québec, thinking Israel is illegitimate and "hereric", because Jews shouldn't return to the Holy Land until God allows them to do so.

Yes, there are crazy people in every grouping of people. Satmar Jews are the American version of that. 

A better example would be ultra-secular Jews who do not identify with Israel, but in most cases these Jews also don't strongly identify with Judaism either. Which is fine, I disagree with it strongly and on moral grounds, but one will do what one wants to do.

But, for the most part, Jews who somewhat strongly or strongly identify with the culture, religion etc...have Israel as a top 5 or top 10 issue.

Israel doesn't exist for the mere fact of existing. It exists to better Jewish life, including Diaspora Jewish life. It may not be very successful in the latter, but Israel definitely does more for Diaspora Jews then any political party has or will do.

This continuous effort to split Jews and Israel from each other is not surprising to me, because ultimately the only thing the far-left wants is 100% obedience on all issues.

Also, the Security establishment in Israel is who? Dagan, Halevy? People who are irrelevant in today's world and just want to win the love of the left?

Dagan, Halevy, Ayalon, Yadlin, Ben-Yisrael, Ziv, Mitzna, etc. Even Barak told Netanyahu to let the deal slide. Furthermore you talk about the "love of the left" as if it's worth sh[inks].

And no, if you think Herzog, Livni and co. in anyway represent the American Jewish left, something is seriously wrong with you, because they don't. They represent the Israeli center-left, which is emphatically not the same thing.

[moderatevoter]

Sen. Schatz (D-HI) is a yes. 17 Democrats so far -- halfway there.

[Likely Voter]

There is an undisputed fact in favor of the Iran deal that immediately benefits all Americans --- the price of gas going down. It is already driving down the price and in 2016 gas prices could dip down to $2.

But I guess it is too crass for politicians to point this out?