What term to you prefer for Great Britain, Ireland and surrounding islands
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  What term to you prefer for Great Britain, Ireland and surrounding islands
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Question: What term to you prefer for Great Britain, Ireland and surrounding islands?
#1
British Isles
 
#2
Britian and Ireland
 
#3
Atlantic Archipelago
 
#4
Other (pls specify)
 
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Total Voters: 78

Author Topic: What term to you prefer for Great Britain, Ireland and surrounding islands  (Read 1787 times)
politicus
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« on: July 26, 2015, 04:13:27 PM »
« edited: July 27, 2015, 05:09:43 AM by politicus »

The Irish government recommends Britain and Ireland. Some PC academics use Atlantic archipelago.
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angus
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2015, 05:03:23 PM »

The Irish government recommend Britain and Ireland. Some PC academics Atlantic archipelago.

Interesting.  I thought immediately of "British Aisles" after reading the question, and before looking at the voting options.  Then, after looking at the options I realized that I do not spell very well after a touch of the grape.  I went with the first respons.  

What do you call them?
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2015, 07:24:48 PM »

British Isles.
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Harry
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2015, 08:17:09 PM »

Some PC academics Atlantic archipelago.

Taking one particular white/European archipelago out of the entire Atlantic and giving it that name seems a lot less PC to me...
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2015, 09:28:42 PM »

Islands of the North Atlantic (IoNA) is one attempted name you didn't mention.  It's certainly better than Atlantic Archipelago, if only because it has a pronounceable acronym.  As for complaints that there are other islands in the (North) Atlantic, I don't think anyone in the United States of America, can voice them.
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2015, 11:48:25 PM »

"Atlantic archipelago" or even "Islands of the North Atlantic" are dumb and don't even fit that well, since they're more in the North Sea. If any place deserves "Atlantic archipelago" it's the Azores. For an all inclusive term that includes all the islands, not just the largest two, how about Anglo-Celtic Isles as one suggested term?

But anyway, British Isles for me.
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2015, 12:07:51 AM »

Silly Ireland, you can't get upset about racist naming conventions if you're White.
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politicus
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2015, 05:14:40 AM »

"Atlantic archipelago" or even "Islands of the North Atlantic" are dumb and don't even fit that well, since they're more in the North Sea. If any place deserves "Atlantic archipelago" it's the Azores. For an all inclusive term that includes all the islands, not just the largest two, how about Anglo-Celtic Isles as one suggested term?

But anyway, British Isles for me.

Iceland is bigger than Ireland.
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politicus
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2015, 05:23:09 AM »
« Edited: July 27, 2015, 05:30:08 AM by politicus »


Well, it is Wiki info, but their quotes seems legit. Do you disagree?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

Regarding British Isles they got a 2005 statement from the Foreign Minister:

"The British Isles is not an officially recognised term in any legal or inter-governmental sense. It is without any official status. The Government, including the Department of Foreign Affairs, does not use this term. Our officials in the Embassy of Ireland, London, continue to monitor the media in Britain for any abuse of the official terms as set out in the Constitution of Ireland and in legislation. These include the name of the State, the President, Taoiseach and others."

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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2015, 06:37:50 AM »

"Atlantic archipelago" or even "Islands of the North Atlantic" are dumb and don't even fit that well, since they're more in the North Sea. If any place deserves "Atlantic archipelago" it's the Azores. For an all inclusive term that includes all the islands, not just the largest two, how about Anglo-Celtic Isles as one suggested term?

But anyway, British Isles for me.

Iceland is bigger than Ireland.


From the context, I think "largest two" was referring to the two largest islands of that archipelago, and not of the Atlantic. In any case, the two largest Atlantic islands are Greenland and Baffin.
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politicus
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2015, 06:57:38 AM »
« Edited: July 27, 2015, 07:02:41 AM by politicus »

"Atlantic archipelago" or even "Islands of the North Atlantic" are dumb and don't even fit that well, since they're more in the North Sea. If any place deserves "Atlantic archipelago" it's the Azores. For an all inclusive term that includes all the islands, not just the largest two, how about Anglo-Celtic Isles as one suggested term?

But anyway, British Isles for me.

Iceland is bigger than Ireland.


From the context, I think "largest two" was referring to the two largest islands of that archipelago, and not of the Atlantic. In any case, the two largest Atlantic islands are Greenland and Baffin.

The International Hydrographic Organization recognizes the Arctic Sea as an ocean, so that would exclude those two from the Atlantic. At least Greenland, given that the Greenland Sea is often defined as part of the Arctic Ocean.
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Panda Express
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2015, 07:45:11 AM »

I just call it "England".
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politicus
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2015, 08:04:53 AM »


Well, it is Wiki info, but their quotes seems legit. Do you disagree?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

Regarding British Isles they got a 2005 statement from the Foreign Minister:

"The British Isles is not an officially recognised term in any legal or inter-governmental sense. It is without any official status. The Government, including the Department of Foreign Affairs, does not use this term. Our officials in the Embassy of Ireland, London, continue to monitor the media in Britain for any abuse of the official terms as set out in the Constitution of Ireland and in legislation. These include the name of the State, the President, Taoiseach and others."

I don't dispute that the use of the term 'British Isles' is loaded and not favoured for use in Ireland, either officially, or in general.

However, nothing in the wiki page, nor in that quote, gives an indication to me that the Government of Ireland recommend the use of the term 'Britain and Ireland' as their preferred alternative to the term 'British Isles', as you assert in the OP.


Okay, just write that then instead of the passive-agressive "does it?". It seems Ireland and UK simply use "these Isles" in treaties. And it is all rather complicated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2015, 08:16:55 AM »
« Edited: July 27, 2015, 08:21:38 AM by True Federalist »

"Atlantic archipelago" or even "Islands of the North Atlantic" are dumb and don't even fit that well, since they're more in the North Sea. If any place deserves "Atlantic archipelago" it's the Azores. For an all inclusive term that includes all the islands, not just the largest two, how about Anglo-Celtic Isles as one suggested term?

But anyway, British Isles for me.

Iceland is bigger than Ireland.


From the context, I think "largest two" was referring to the two largest islands of that archipelago, and not of the Atlantic. In any case, the two largest Atlantic islands are Greenland and Baffin.

The International Hydrographic Organization recognizes the Arctic Sea as an ocean, so that would exclude those two from the Atlantic. At least Greenland, given that the Greenland Sea is often defined as part of the Arctic Ocean.

Baffin Bay and the Labrador Sea are clearly arms of the Atlantic and that or the North Atlantic Ocean itself is where Greenland's population is largely located.  Granted, Greenland also borders the Arctic, but then so does Iceland if one considers the Greenland Sea to be part of the Arctic Ocean.  So if that disqualifies Greenland, it also disqualifies Iceland.
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politicus
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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2015, 08:44:09 AM »

"Atlantic archipelago" or even "Islands of the North Atlantic" are dumb and don't even fit that well, since they're more in the North Sea. If any place deserves "Atlantic archipelago" it's the Azores. For an all inclusive term that includes all the islands, not just the largest two, how about Anglo-Celtic Isles as one suggested term?

But anyway, British Isles for me.

Iceland is bigger than Ireland.


From the context, I think "largest two" was referring to the two largest islands of that archipelago, and not of the Atlantic. In any case, the two largest Atlantic islands are Greenland and Baffin.

The International Hydrographic Organization recognizes the Arctic Sea as an ocean, so that would exclude those two from the Atlantic. At least Greenland, given that the Greenland Sea is often defined as part of the Arctic Ocean.

Baffin Bay and the Labrador Sea are clearly arms of the Atlantic and that or the North Atlantic Ocean itself is where Greenland's population is largely located.  Granted, Greenland also borders the Arctic, but then so does Iceland if one considers the Greenland Sea to be part of the Arctic Ocean.  So if that disqualifies Greenland, it also disqualifies Iceland.

The bulk of the Icelandic population is concentrated in the SW, which is Atlantic by any standard.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2015, 08:46:06 AM »

I actually really like the sound of "Anglo-Celtic Isles".
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politicus
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« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2015, 08:47:37 AM »

The two largest islands to lie completely within the Atlantic Ocean are Britain (80,823 sq miles/209,331 sq km) and Newfoundland (42,031 sq miles/108,860 sq km).
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angus
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« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2015, 09:48:37 AM »


But that's rather like calling the Netherlands "Holland."  Lots of folks do it, even a few cartographers, but in Netherlands Holland refers only to two provinces, Noord Holland and Zuid Holland, within the Netherlands.  England is sort of like that.  It's only part of the larger of the islands.  

I think it's an interesting question, and one that I hadn't even thought of.  I'm not sure that I have ever referred to the British Isles by any name, but when I saw the question British Isles was the name that immediately came to mind--well, British Aisles came to mind, though I cannot remember why--making me think that this is the commonly-used term in the English Language.  After voting, I surfed into the same Wikipedia article posted later by politicus and saw that it's actually an ancient name, and one that predates the English language by several hundred years.  It should not be surprising, therefore, that it is overwhelmingly the option chosen by the voters herein.

According to that same article, "these islands" is the preferred phrase among some nationalists in Northern Ireland as well as in  in documents drawn up jointly between the British and Irish governments.  Makes sense.  Outside Ireland, however, I think the phrase British Isles must be overwhelmingly preferred, as is evidenced by this poll.  

The third option in the poll is unnecessarily ambiguous.  The second option is logical, but it is not the one that has been popularized.  Also, it has the disadvantage of losing Ireland.  People get tired of saying "this and that" and it invariably gets shortened to "this" only.  I don't know anyone from "Trinidad and Tobago" but I have met several people from Trinidad.  I don't know anyone who has ever gone scuba diving in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, but I know many who have been to Saint Vincent and a few who have visited the Grenadines.  People from São Tomé e Príncipe are invariably called São Tomean, and not São Tomé e Príncipeans.  

I guess you could avoid that by putting the more populous one last.  If it was called Príncipe e São Tomé then they'd both stick.  Same with Ireland and Britain.  Folks aren't going to leave off Britain.  So that might also be a reasonable poll option, though I still don't think it'd steal many votes away from the well-established name that seems to be winning.

For example, Provo, which is in the Caicos, has more people than any of the other islands in Turks and Caicos, including Grand Turk, so nobody just says "Turk."  Then again, when people visit Provo they just say Provo.  "Where'd y'all go?"  "Provo."  "Really, sweet.  Um, where's that?"  "Turks and Caicos islands."  "Oh, where's that?"  "Near Cuba.  Sort of."  
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2015, 09:58:22 AM »

Ah yes, this hilarious issue. Always a useful reminder that people can sometimes get very angry about things that surely aren't that important? Anyway, as a practical geographical term 'British Isles' is harmless and obviously better than the rather mealy-mouthed alternatives many of which have dodgy implications of their own. When it comes to political geography than obviously things suddenly get rather tense, particularly as these days the only sense in which you need a term is with regards to the Northern Ireland question.
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Torie
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« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2015, 10:47:57 AM »

How about British and Irish Isles? That even finesses the Northern Ireland issue. Smiley
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politicus
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« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2015, 11:24:56 AM »

How about British and Irish Isles? That even finesses the Northern Ireland issue. Smiley

I prefer the Rain-drenched Isles.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2015, 11:36:24 AM »

British Isles.
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« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2015, 11:40:20 AM »

I call it the place I stop to get duty free booze.
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2015, 03:20:08 PM »

Either of the first two options.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2015, 04:40:40 PM »

Has the Isle of Man (et al) ceased to exist?
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