Is it just me, or does Trump seem untouchable?
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  Is it just me, or does Trump seem untouchable?
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Author Topic: Is it just me, or does Trump seem untouchable?  (Read 8281 times)
Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2015, 11:43:13 PM »

The problem with fighting against Trump is that he is essentially running on a platform of magic. All our problems will be solved easily through his superior negotiating skills.

He will fix illegal immigration by getting Mexico to build a big wall. He will save Social Security by getting China to send back all those jobs pumping up the economy and tax base. He will just get Iran to give us a better nuke deal because reasons.  He has a simple magical solution for everything. And apparently a good chunk of GOPers believe it because he is rich and successful so sure he can do it. How do you argue against something like that?

If a lot of the GOP believe "the guy's rich, he can work miracles", it's because the GOP establishment and the GOP donor base has worked to foster this belief.  After all, the GOP is the party of the super-rich and their policies are tilted toward the super-rich, so softening attitudes toward the super-rich is a needed tactic in order for the GOP to have a shot at winning its races.

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eric82oslo
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« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2015, 12:51:11 AM »

The funniest thing is that the media (I think it was CNN) asked him what specific tasks he would take in order to substitute Obamacare. According to health care professionals and professors within the field, every single proposal except one that Trump could come up with was an exact replica of the Affordable Care Act. The only proposal where he disagreed was actually more socialistic than Obamacare as he said he thought everyone deserved to get covered, he didn't have a heart to anything less.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2015, 12:55:04 AM »

The FPÖ says stuff like this all the time and they are still here (and stronger than ever before as well).

So why should the situation with rightwing-populist Trump be any different ? These comments only make them stronger, not weaker.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2015, 01:40:21 AM »

The problem with fighting against Trump is that he is essentially running on a platform of magic. All our problems will be solved easily through his superior negotiating skills.

He will fix illegal immigration by getting Mexico to build a big wall. He will save Social Security by getting China to send back all those jobs pumping up the economy and tax base. He will just get Iran to give us a better nuke deal because reasons.  He has a simple magical solution for everything. And apparently a good chunk of GOPers believe it because he is rich and successful so sure he can do it. How do you argue against something like that?

When you have a party, and really, a whole political system that it based on equally nonsensical premises it becomes pretty difficult. Trump's schtick is pointing out that the Emperor and his whole court are a little on the threadbare side. That would be easy to stomp out, if the Emperor & Co were wearing any clothes.
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eric82oslo
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« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2015, 01:42:48 AM »

The problem with fighting against Trump is that he is essentially running on a platform of magic. All our problems will be solved easily through his superior negotiating skills.

He will fix illegal immigration by getting Mexico to build a big wall. He will save Social Security by getting China to send back all those jobs pumping up the economy and tax base. He will just get Iran to give us a better nuke deal because reasons.  He has a simple magical solution for everything. And apparently a good chunk of GOPers believe it because he is rich and successful so sure he can do it. How do you argue against something like that?

When you have a party, and really, a whole political system that it based on equally nonsensical premises it becomes pretty difficult. Trump's schtick is pointing out that the Emperor and his whole court are a little on the threadbare side. That would be easy to stomp out, if the Emperor & Co were wearing any clothes.

Couldn't ever have said it in any better terms/words/you name it. Basically: The emperor has no clothes.
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Spark
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« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2015, 04:30:45 PM »

Trump's soaring in the polls are due to publicity, I wonder if it'll be the same a year from now
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2015, 05:37:12 PM »

Not going to bother starting a brand new thread for this, but a Trump campaign staffer was just fired for making racist FB posts:

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-campaign-staffer-sam-nunberg-fired-after-racist-facebook-posts-n402756

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Republican Michigander
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« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2015, 06:03:20 PM »

As a GOP County chair (population 180,000) with a large tea party base and a large "traditional conservative" base, I don't see Trump making it. He's not trusted. Some like that he's blunt, tells off the media, tells off the media's favorite McCain, and gives the DC political class heartburn, but when push comes to shove, they aren't voting for him.

He may be "leading" in a meaningless August poll, but he also has the highest negatives among "R's" in that same poll. He also has 99% name recognition, compared to a Scott Walker for example.

His base of support is disaffecteds who don't always vote, and who rarely are active on the ground supporting a candidate. They usually don't donate. They usually don't volunteer. They post online. That's it. People confuse them with "Tea party." That's not the case and is due to media laziness. The only Trump supporters I see that are super active outside of disaffecteds are single issue borders types.

The moderates I've talked to tend to support Kasich, Jeb, or Walker (gets things done), sometimes Rubio. Not Huckabee, who is probably the most liberal Republican running. Trump offends them.

The traditional conservatives  tend to support Walker, Rubio, or Kasich (with reservations on a couple of issues). They don't trust Trump.

The religious conservatives love Cruz. Trump's mouth offends them. Some of them like Ben Carson as well.

Libertarian Republicans like Rand Paul.

2nd Amendment folks want to defeat Hillary (or O'Malley). They don't trust Trump on past statements.

The tea party conservatives tend to be split between Cruz, Rand Paul, and Walker (strongly dislike Jeb and Karl Rove) based on which area of issues is most important to them. A couple are Ben Carson or Carly Fiorina fans. They are extremely rigid on a lot of issues, but do their homework. Trump's donations are a major concern to them. Every tea party is different, but the ones in my area aren't Trump folks.

I could be wrong, but I'll be stunned (and disappointed) if Trump's the nominee.

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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2015, 09:21:10 PM »

As a GOP County chair (population 180,000) with a large tea party base and a large "traditional conservative" base, I don't see Trump making it. He's not trusted. Some like that he's blunt, tells off the media, tells off the media's favorite McCain, and gives the DC political class heartburn, but when push comes to shove, they aren't voting for him.

He may be "leading" in a meaningless August poll, but he also has the highest negatives among "R's" in that same poll. He also has 99% name recognition, compared to a Scott Walker for example.

His base of support is disaffecteds who don't always vote, and who rarely are active on the ground supporting a candidate. They usually don't donate. They usually don't volunteer. They post online. That's it. People confuse them with "Tea party." That's not the case and is due to media laziness. The only Trump supporters I see that are super active outside of disaffecteds are single issue borders types.

The moderates I've talked to tend to support Kasich, Jeb, or Walker (gets things done), sometimes Rubio. Not Huckabee, who is probably the most liberal Republican running. Trump offends them.

The traditional conservatives  tend to support Walker, Rubio, or Kasich (with reservations on a couple of issues). They don't trust Trump.

The religious conservatives love Cruz. Trump's mouth offends them. Some of them like Ben Carson as well.

Libertarian Republicans like Rand Paul.

2nd Amendment folks want to defeat Hillary (or O'Malley). They don't trust Trump on past statements.

The tea party conservatives tend to be split between Cruz, Rand Paul, and Walker (strongly dislike Jeb and Karl Rove) based on which area of issues is most important to them. A couple are Ben Carson or Carly Fiorina fans. They are extremely rigid on a lot of issues, but do their homework. Trump's donations are a major concern to them. Every tea party is different, but the ones in my area aren't Trump folks.

I could be wrong, but I'll be stunned (and disappointed) if Trump's the nominee.



I would vote for Trump in the GOP primary if the primary were held today.  I confess to being something of a RINO, but I'm still a Republican primary voter, and I am a social conservative.

I, too, would be stunned if Trump were the nominee.  I can't say I'd be disappointed, because the political establishment has provided the kind of free trade policies that caused the loss of manufacturing jobs in Michigan.  (My wife is from Michigan and I'm from New York, so we know about disappearing manufacturing jobs.)  Yes, we can bad-mouth unions, but it was the greed of the investor class, coupled with free trade agreements that took jobs that the Southern states stole from Michigan and New York and shipped to Mexico and China, courtesy of NAFTA and GATT.  And the bulk of the GOP candidates were OK with this.

You're a local party chair.  So you must see how the national GOP, over time, gave its corporate donors everything they wanted in exchange for rivers of campaign cash.  Part of that the corporate donors wanted was free trade so they could export jobs (which they did, and do).  You've seen what Pat Buchanan observed; the GOP gave their corporate donors everything they wanted, and they got the campaign cash, but it cost them the voters that gave them their landslides.  They lost Middle America for the GOP.  They lost Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, and the industrial Midwest. 

You probably know that you can't win elections in Michigan without getting the votes of at least SOME unionized workers, and not just the ones that go to church.  Trump is talking to THOSE people, people who once delivered Michigan to the GOP 5 Presidential elections in a row.  They left in 1992 and they aren't back.  Some have died, but the younger ones like them aren't back, either.  Trump has the gumption to let these people know that their own party has screwed them.  As a registered Republican, I would like to know where the grass roots pushback is against free trade, which has ruined Michigan.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2015, 09:38:19 PM »

Voters will tire of his act in due course. Some enjoy his antics, but many of those will not really in the end want him to be POTUS. The job is just too important. Be patient. And that would be my advice to the candidates, except perhaps those trying to generate their own buzz to get into the mix, and have higher visibility. Maybe Christie will go there. They speak the same language.

It never dawns on folks that Trump may well be leading because people agree with him on the issues he emphasizes moreso than they do with other candidates, and that the issues Trump emphasized are more important to a big slice of the GOP than the issues other candidates are emphasizing.

Trump's supporters may be dissed and dismissed as "low information voters", but since Baker v. Carr, it's one-man-one-vote, regardless of the "information" level.  They know where they stand and what they want, and they are tired of the political class trot out it's approved candidates and lecturing them about what they really need.

He's even said he would support a pathway to citizenship, which is the main issue that he was emphasizing. There is no place for Trump sympathizers to go: they just like that he talks back.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2015, 09:55:45 PM »

Voters will tire of his act in due course. Some enjoy his antics, but many of those will not really in the end want him to be POTUS. The job is just too important. Be patient. And that would be my advice to the candidates, except perhaps those trying to generate their own buzz to get into the mix, and have higher visibility. Maybe Christie will go there. They speak the same language.

It never dawns on folks that Trump may well be leading because people agree with him on the issues he emphasizes moreso than they do with other candidates, and that the issues Trump emphasized are more important to a big slice of the GOP than the issues other candidates are emphasizing.

Trump's supporters may be dissed and dismissed as "low information voters", but since Baker v. Carr, it's one-man-one-vote, regardless of the "information" level.  They know where they stand and what they want, and they are tired of the political class trot out it's approved candidates and lecturing them about what they really need.

He's even said he would support a pathway to citizenship, which is the main issue that he was emphasizing. There is no place for Trump sympathizers to go: they just like that he talks back.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/249711-trump-would-grant-good-immigrants-pathway-to-legal-status

Trump states that he would support a pathway to "legal status", not necessarily citizenship, and only for such immigrants that have "done well".
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Maxwell
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« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2015, 10:03:46 PM »
« Edited: August 03, 2015, 12:52:05 AM by maxheem »

Voters will tire of his act in due course. Some enjoy his antics, but many of those will not really in the end want him to be POTUS. The job is just too important. Be patient. And that would be my advice to the candidates, except perhaps those trying to generate their own buzz to get into the mix, and have higher visibility. Maybe Christie will go there. They speak the same language.

It never dawns on folks that Trump may well be leading because people agree with him on the issues he emphasizes moreso than they do with other candidates, and that the issues Trump emphasized are more important to a big slice of the GOP than the issues other candidates are emphasizing.

Trump's supporters may be dissed and dismissed as "low information voters", but since Baker v. Carr, it's one-man-one-vote, regardless of the "information" level.  They know where they stand and what they want, and they are tired of the political class trot out it's approved candidates and lecturing them about what they really need.

He's even said he would support a pathway to citizenship, which is the main issue that he was emphasizing. There is no place for Trump sympathizers to go: they just like that he talks back.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/249711-trump-would-grant-good-immigrants-pathway-to-legal-status

Trump states that he would support a pathway to "legal status", not necessarily citizenship, and only for such immigrants that have "done well".

Isn't that the same thing that the Pathwayer's want? Legal status for illegal immigrants if they've worked hard? Trade Agreements are the last thing that would be possible, and that hasn't been an issue in months.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2015, 08:50:00 AM »

His numbers will go down when people start asking for an actual plan (via the debates)

And that he's flip flopped multiple times on the issues while we're at it. Someone is definitely going to bring that up.
This will be Trump's biggest problem. He's flip-flopping all the time and that will make him look really incapable.

Voters will tire of his act in due course. Some enjoy his antics, but many of those will not really in the end want him to be POTUS. The job is just too important. Be patient. And that would be my advice to the candidates, except perhaps those trying to generate their own buzz to get into the mix, and have higher visibility. Maybe Christie will go there. They speak the same language.

It never dawns on folks that Trump may well be leading because people agree with him on the issues he emphasizes moreso than they do with other candidates, and that the issues Trump emphasized are more important to a big slice of the GOP than the issues other candidates are emphasizing.

Trump's supporters may be dissed and dismissed as "low information voters", but since Baker v. Carr, it's one-man-one-vote, regardless of the "information" level.  They know where they stand and what they want, and they are tired of the political class trot out it's approved candidates and lecturing them about what they really need.

Trump supporters aren't dismissed as "low information voters." They ARE low information voters who are scared and angry, perhaps for legitimate reasons as it pertains to the economy, though for silly reasons when they fear brown people like Trump does.
Seriously, normal/sane Republicans shouldn't go full European social democratic style in calling Trump supporters "stupid" or "racist" - that's the way to lose these people. Republicans should take their concerns seriously while offering solutions that are real and legitimate (as opposed to Trump's lala dreamland nonsense), not simply dismiss these people's concerns as irrelevant.
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Republican Michigander
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« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2015, 01:04:56 PM »


I would vote for Trump in the GOP primary if the primary were held today.  I confess to being something of a RINO, but I'm still a Republican primary voter, and I am a social conservative.

I, too, would be stunned if Trump were the nominee.  I can't say I'd be disappointed, because the political establishment has provided the kind of free trade policies that caused the loss of manufacturing jobs in Michigan.  (My wife is from Michigan and I'm from New York, so we know about disappearing manufacturing jobs.)  Yes, we can bad-mouth unions, but it was the greed of the investor class, coupled with free trade agreements that took jobs that the Southern states stole from Michigan and New York and shipped to Mexico and China, courtesy of NAFTA and GATT.  And the bulk of the GOP candidates were OK with this.

You're a local party chair.  So you must see how the national GOP, over time, gave its corporate donors everything they wanted in exchange for rivers of campaign cash.  Part of that the corporate donors wanted was free trade so they could export jobs (which they did, and do).  You've seen what Pat Buchanan observed; the GOP gave their corporate donors everything they wanted, and they got the campaign cash, but it cost them the voters that gave them their landslides.  They lost Middle America for the GOP.  They lost Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, and the industrial Midwest. 

You probably know that you can't win elections in Michigan without getting the votes of at least SOME unionized workers, and not just the ones that go to church.  Trump is talking to THOSE people, people who once delivered Michigan to the GOP 5 Presidential elections in a row.  They left in 1992 and they aren't back.  Some have died, but the younger ones like them aren't back, either.  Trump has the gumption to let these people know that their own party has screwed them.  As a registered Republican, I would like to know where the grass roots pushback is against free trade, which has ruined Michigan.

I'm from a union family. I don't support those trade agreements. If you took a poll of the grassroots in my party, you'd find a lot more opposition to those that people would think (not a majority, but significant minority).

That also said, the unions haven't done a damn thing for us in 25 years when they sold us out to back their democrat corporate masters (you read that correctly). Clinton signed NAFTA and GATT. The union leadership continued to back them to go to the correct cocktail parties. They sold out on outsourcing contract time as well. Unions became about politics instead of contracts. A lot of us with ties to non government unions know that.

These days, the big union strength in Michigan are as much about government unions instead of auto unions. The MEA is the big one these days.  A lot of people gave up on trade. I couldn't vote when NAFTA was signed. Granholm also hurt the democrats here as much as the two President Bushes (W's second term esp, along with his dad) hurt the Republicans here.
 
I agree there's openings for a "jobs" candidate in the Midwest. A lot of things have changed, but Michigan is still a pocketbook state first that is center-left economically and center-right socially. The "do ones job" issues matter the most. I think Kasich may be the most electable candidate here. I wouldn't bet against Walker either.
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