Bernie sanders on immigration

[politicus]

"But as Reason’s Shikha Dalmia has long-argued, this view is at odds with the consensus among economists that more immigration is better for the economy, has a positive effect on wages, and creates jobs."

Reason thinks immigration will lead to higher wages, the same people who think getting rid of the minimum wage will lead to higher wages. That should tell you something.

They do? I get the opposite impression from that passage.

The argument is that immigration leads to more jobs and higher productivity, which again leads to higher wages for workers.

Still, in a country with as weak unions as the US the productivity gains to wages effect is far from a sure thing.

[Famous Mortimer]

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The U.S. Social Security Administration disagrees with you.

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This argument is ridiculous on its face.  Young people don't cause countries to be poor.  As countries develop, improved access to medical care, education, and birth control lead to higher life expectancies and lower birth rates.  This causes populations to age as people live longer and have fewer kids.  This isn't an obscure fact.  In fact, this is common knowledge.

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I have to stop you right there.  Common sense is often wrong, and often misleads.  Quantum mechanics and general relativity both fly in the face of common sense.  Particles can exist in two places at once, time runs slower the faster you move.  These are not common sense ideas, yet they are backed up by the empirical evidence.  

In this case, our common sense is unreliable because our brains were evolved to handle interactions between at most a few dozen people. For most of history, our brains never needed to deal with the complex economic interactions between millions of people.  The scientific method, not common sense, has fueled technological progress and revolutionized our society.

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What you're doing here is using your already held assumptions to dismiss empirical evidence.  What you should be doing is changing your assumptions when evidence has shown them to be flawed.

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How about you stop accusing me of being a liar and take my intentions at face value.  I genuinely believe that immigration makes our country stronger.  This country's unique history (and future) as a country of immigrants is something that genuinely makes me proud to be an American.

Just because quantum mechanics is true, doesn't mean all arguments that sound illogical are also true.

You see, it's not just that immigration doesn't SEEM like it would help the economy. It's also that it never HAS helped the economy. The unique history of America that you love so much proves that. The two eras of mass immigration that we have had were the Gilded Age and the modern age (1965 to present). Both eras saw real wages decline, saw the the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Robber baron/CEO pay did go up though, so I guess by that metric, the economy did get better, but that's a weird metric for a liberal to judge the economy by.

Alternatively, when we saw the emergence of a middle class, unions, and America as the world's major industrialized country, the era from WWI up until 1965, we allowed hardly any immigration at all.

So frankly, if you're not being disingenuous about your belief that immigration helps the overall economy, you're just being dumb. Immigration in the past has never had the results you claim it should but has always had the results I and Sanders have predicted.

[SWE]

Bernie Sanders has always been a white supremacist so this isn't particularly surprising.

Glad that we have a nationalist running for President, although I would prefer if he were not also a socialist.

Luckily he isn't so you're good.

[Mehmentum]

Just because quantum mechanics is true, doesn't mean all arguments that sound illogical are also true.

Obviously, I never tried to claim that.  Conversely, just because an argument sounds logical, it doesn't automatically make it true.  If an argument sounds logical, but is contradicted by evidence, then it is most likely false.

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Correlation doesn't prove causation.  The Gilded saw an increase in economic inequality not only in the U.S., but worldwide.  Many European countries with no immigration underwent the same economic changes that the U.S went through during the gilded age.  This suggest the cause wasn't people moving from place to place, but something more fundamental.

Indeed, the historic peak of income inequality was the around 1930, an era of very little immigration in the U.S..

I would like to propose an alternative hypothesis.  Liberal economic policies reduce income inequality.  The Gilded Age and Modern Era were are both periods where conservative economic ideas are dominant.  On the other hand, the time period from the 40s to the 60s was dominated by the New Deal coalition, which put in place economic policies that reduced income inequality.  

This explanation fits what we've seen historically far better than the immigration hypothesis.

[Cory]

Bernie Sanders has always been a white supremacist so this isn't particularly surprising.

Please do elaborate.

Come to think of it this position of his might actually help him make inroads with black voters in the Southeast.

[Yelnoc]

Bernie Sanders has always been a white supremacist so this isn't particularly surprising.

Glad that we have a nationalist running for President, although I would prefer if he were not also a socialist.

Luckily he isn't so you're good.

Quality sh**tpost.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bernie Sanders has always been a white supremacist so this isn't particularly surprising.

Glad that we have a nationalist running for President, although I would prefer if he were not also a socialist.

Luckily he isn't so you're good.

How many white supremacists endorsed Jesse Jackson for President?

[Zezano]

I am very fascinated by Bernie Sanders. On one hand you get Tea Party Republicans who are against illegal immigration amnesty but support increasing H1B Visas. Also Ted Cruz voted for the Trans Pacific Partnership. Bernie Sanders is the opposite in the sense he voted for amnesty and the Dream Act but opposes H1B Visas and Corporate Outsourcing. I would certainly support Bernie Sanders over Jeb Bush. More progressives need to realize that mass immigration harms workers and benefits the ultral rich.