NH GOP "Voters First Forum" **live commentary thread**

[Torie]

Where can I buy swag merch from Jeb's "swag store".

I can't find it.  

I'm sure dudeabides would be happy to PM it to you.

I am thankful to the posters here who have respectfully disagreed with me, and I am thankful to the posters who clearly are my allies. Some like to attack me for my support of Governor Bush, they call me a troll or say that I’m delusional. That’s fine, I can take the heat. But, I think my critics should at least understand where I come from and why I support Jeb Bush for President.

I am optimistic about the future of America, but Barack Obama’s policies have failed us, and he would rather divide people than appeal to our hopes and dreams. I believe in the principles of limited government, free markets, and a foreign policy where America is a leader in the world, but not the police of the world, and where we always protect our security interests. In January, I researched several prospective presidential candidates, their values, and their records. I’ve admired Jeb Bush’s leadership for years and found that on the economy and reforming government, he’s the candidate with the best track record. He also has diversity of experience, isn’t afraid to make decisions, and he appeals to people’s hopes in an era when we have a President who wants people to vote based on their fears. I also happen to agree with Jeb Bush on the issues.

I knew going into this process I could not support Rand Paul because of his opposition to Iranian sanctions, the Patriot Act, and his lack of judgement in foreign affairs. I knew going in that Ted Cruz can’t win and is too inexperienced. Donald Trump is to the left of Hillary Clinton and is clueless on the economy and foreign policy. I like and admire Scott Walker, John Kasich, Bobby Jindal, Carly Fiorina, Mike Huckabee, Marco Rubio, Lindsey Graham, and I’ve gained respect for Rick Perry. But, simply put, Jeb Bush is the best qualified, he’s got the best record, I agree with his vision, and he is the best able to defeat the Democrats and lead this country.

So, for the last time. I do not profit from supporting Jeb Bush. I do not volunteer for Bush's campaign, though I will in due time. I am not with Jeb Bush on 100% of the issues, but I am on most things. I don't think his father and brother were great Presidents, I think they were good, and I'm not judging Jeb on George H.W. or George W's record, that wouldn't be fair. I see the candidate's flaws - he has embraced common core and I get that the fact that he had investments in companies that benefited from Obamacare could cause problems for him. But I will defend facts AND my opinions, and the rights of others to express their opinions. 

That's a nice statement, but this chit chat here is more about debate performance, and less about who the Pubs should nominate, and who would make the best POTUS out of the bunch. I am open to Jeb, but thought his performance was undisciplined and lacking. He needs to get his act together, and soon, or he's going to fall by the way side imo.

[Kingpoleon]

Interesting how dudeabides only shows up after Jeb leaves the stage...could they be the same person??!!

Stop, okay?

I know what it's like being harassed for liking a candidate a lot. Doing that only encourages support, and it causes breaking up with an otherwise highly knowledgeable people. Dudeabides is one of our most frequent posters. I may disagree with what he has to say, but I will defend his right to say it. Please stop attacking him needlessly for energetically backing a candidate while some of us find everyone in 2016 hard to be excited about. Dudeabides:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

[The Other Castro]

Interesting how dudeabides only shows up after Jeb leaves the stage...could they be the same person??!!

Stop, okay?

I know what it's like being harassed for liking a candidate a lot. Doing that only encourages support, and it causes breaking up with an otherwise highly knowledgeable people. Dudeabides is one of our most frequent posters. I may disagree with what he has to say, but I will defend his right to say it. Please stop attacking him needlessly for energetically backing a candidate while some of us find everyone in 2016 hard to be excited about. Dudeabides:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I'd hardly call that an attack, maybe it would help if he talked about anything besides Bush.

[Kingpoleon]

Interesting how dudeabides only shows up after Jeb leaves the stage...could they be the same person??!!

Stop, okay?

I know what it's like being harassed for liking a candidate a lot. Doing that only encourages support, and it causes breaking up with an otherwise highly knowledgeable people. Dudeabides is one of our most frequent posters. I may disagree with what he has to say, but I will defend his right to say it. Please stop attacking him needlessly for energetically backing a candidate while some of us find everyone in 2016 hard to be excited about. Dudeabides:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I'd hardly call that an attack, maybe it would help if he talked about anything besides Bush.

So? You were quite blatantly saying that he was Jeb Bush as a form of mockery. I don't call you "Julian Castro" to mock you. Listen, I respect you. Your posts are usually very independent-minded. However, I feel the need to inform you that the proper response to energetic support of a candidate is, "Great! You found someone to support! I like how enthusiastic you are!" The proper response is most definitely not "Jeb Bush did bad! Are you Jeb Bush? LOL! How can you like Bush?!?"

[dudeabides]

Where can I buy swag merch from Jeb's "swag store".

I can't find it.  

I'm sure dudeabides would be happy to PM it to you.

I am thankful to the posters here who have respectfully disagreed with me, and I am thankful to the posters who clearly are my allies. Some like to attack me for my support of Governor Bush, they call me a troll or say that I’m delusional. That’s fine, I can take the heat. But, I think my critics should at least understand where I come from and why I support Jeb Bush for President.

I am optimistic about the future of America, but Barack Obama’s policies have failed us, and he would rather divide people than appeal to our hopes and dreams. I believe in the principles of limited government, free markets, and a foreign policy where America is a leader in the world, but not the police of the world, and where we always protect our security interests. In January, I researched several prospective presidential candidates, their values, and their records. I’ve admired Jeb Bush’s leadership for years and found that on the economy and reforming government, he’s the candidate with the best track record. He also has diversity of experience, isn’t afraid to make decisions, and he appeals to people’s hopes in an era when we have a President who wants people to vote based on their fears. I also happen to agree with Jeb Bush on the issues.

I knew going into this process I could not support Rand Paul because of his opposition to Iranian sanctions, the Patriot Act, and his lack of judgement in foreign affairs. I knew going in that Ted Cruz can’t win and is too inexperienced. Donald Trump is to the left of Hillary Clinton and is clueless on the economy and foreign policy. I like and admire Scott Walker, John Kasich, Bobby Jindal, Carly Fiorina, Mike Huckabee, Marco Rubio, Lindsey Graham, and I’ve gained respect for Rick Perry. But, simply put, Jeb Bush is the best qualified, he’s got the best record, I agree with his vision, and he is the best able to defeat the Democrats and lead this country.

So, for the last time. I do not profit from supporting Jeb Bush. I do not volunteer for Bush's campaign, though I will in due time. I am not with Jeb Bush on 100% of the issues, but I am on most things. I don't think his father and brother were great Presidents, I think they were good, and I'm not judging Jeb on George H.W. or George W's record, that wouldn't be fair. I see the candidate's flaws - he has embraced common core and I get that the fact that he had investments in companies that benefited from Obamacare could cause problems for him. But I will defend facts AND my opinions, and the rights of others to express their opinions. 

That's a nice statement, but this chit chat here is more about debate performance, and less about who the Pubs should nominate, and who would make the best POTUS out of the bunch. I am open to Jeb, but thought his performance was undisciplined and lacking. He needs to get his act together, and soon, or he's going to fall by the way side imo.

The point of my statement was to illustrate to those who are attacking me that I am not a troll and have no delusions.

I appreciate what you are saying, and I thank you for being respectful.

Interesting how dudeabides only shows up after Jeb leaves the stage...could they be the same person??!!

Stop, okay?

I know what it's like being harassed for liking a candidate a lot. Doing that only encourages support, and it causes breaking up with an otherwise highly knowledgeable people. Dudeabides is one of our most frequent posters. I may disagree with what he has to say, but I will defend his right to say it. Please stop attacking him needlessly for energetically backing a candidate while some of us find everyone in 2016 hard to be excited about. Dudeabides:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I appreciate your'e kindness and I'm sure we agree on some things.

[Mr. Morden]

20 pages of comments just for this thing?  This place is going to be a madhouse on Thursday.

[Kingpoleon]

20 pages of comments just for this thing?  This place is going to be a madhouse on Thursday.

Nope, we'll all be busy with social... Lives... Stuff... Parties, board games, uh... Yeah.

Prepare for the charge!

[The Other Castro]

Interesting how dudeabides only shows up after Jeb leaves the stage...could they be the same person??!!

Stop, okay?

I know what it's like being harassed for liking a candidate a lot. Doing that only encourages support, and it causes breaking up with an otherwise highly knowledgeable people. Dudeabides is one of our most frequent posters. I may disagree with what he has to say, but I will defend his right to say it. Please stop attacking him needlessly for energetically backing a candidate while some of us find everyone in 2016 hard to be excited about. Dudeabides:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I'd hardly call that an attack, maybe it would help if he talked about anything besides Bush.

So? You were quite blatantly saying that he was Jeb Bush as a form of mockery. I don't call you "Julian Castro" to mock you. Listen, I respect you. Your posts are usually very independent-minded. However, I feel the need to inform you that the proper response to energetic support of a candidate is, "Great! You found someone to support! I like how enthusiastic you are!" The proper response is most definitely not "Jeb Bush did bad! Are you Jeb Bush? LOL! How can you like Bush?!?"

Because that's definitely what I said. If my post seemed hostile, it's not what I intended and I'm sorry if it came off that way to you.

[dudeabides]

I watched the parts with Governor Bush and my observation is that while he knew his facts on foreign policy, he seemed nervous discussing it. When the conversation changed to domestic issues, he became more comfortable and thus articulate. Clearly, he needs to become more comfortable speaking about foreign policy. It's opposite of his father.

[Mr. Morden]

Found these on Twitter....pics of the other candidates in the audience while one of their opponents was speaking:

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

LOL at Pataki checking his watch in the 2nd photo.

"How much longer until I can leave this pathetic excuse for a debate?"

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bush sounds like a neocon here.

Why would you expect otherwise? He was one of the founders of PNAC

[tmthforu94]

Well, Kasich wins "best face" from that group. He was a little squirmish throughout though, I noticed. I don't blame him.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

That was bizarre. But yeah, go Kasich!

[Mr. Morden]

Ftr, ~38% of all posts on Atlas forum today were in this thread.

[Maxwell]

Here are some thoughts:

I think Carly Fiorina did the best job of the group. She gave a strong answer for the 2008 economy question (for conservatives), was very sharp and concise, and knew what she was doing.

I liked Pauls answers, but beyond that I don't think he particularly stood out.

Jeb Bush and Scott Walker switched places in a way - I thought Walker over-performed expectations and gave concise, well done if overly rehearsed answers while Bush kind of fumbled the ball.

The worst performance in my mind, by a healthy margin, was Rick Perry, who sounded totally unhinged in terms to his emotional reactions.

Pataki was notably rusty, in my view, probably the second worst performance of the night.

Bobby Jindal got in some good lines (I liked math denial), but then fumbled the ball completely when he called himself a "doer, not a talker", which was a line that could be perfectly delivered by Rick Perry but sounded ham handed and kind of embarrassing when it delivered by Jindal.

Ben Carson's answer on healthcare was not bad actually, but then his reasoning for tax cuts were ridiculous, and he fell into his wandering, dreadful speaking style from his announcement speech in his closing statement.

Ted Cruz's Iran Deal response, with the black background, made him seem like Dr. Doom and Gloom, not a good luck for a candidate for President. I will give him credit for, unlike the rest of the hawks, actually giving some sort of specifics on his Iran Deal. It wasn't especially enlightening, but it was something.

Marco Rubio followed the format I've seen from him - when given a question that is vague and non-policy related, he hits it out of the park with his pre-prepared speech. When given a question that asks about actual policy, there's a real lack of depth that I noticed even in this forum where there isn't much depth, and I don't think it shows promise for his campaign down the line.

I thought Kasich sounded better than he did when he was running for Governor, but I think his attempts to sound like he was a working class guy trying to relate to people sounded a bit over the top. It was almost as if he was running for social worker, not for President.

By comparison, Lindsey Graham's story hit a lot closer to home. I actually thought Lindsey Graham did a good job for the material he was working with, and it certainly resonated with the other candidates, who acknowledge him in a way that no other candidate was acknowledged. I almost think he's like McGovern in 1984 - no chance of winning, but gaining the hearts and minds of the GOP elders and probably earning a strong reputation for the rest of his career.

Rick Santorum did okay for what he was saying, at least until his comparison of gay marriage to Dred Scott, which was utterly despicable. He was working the working class angle as he usually does, but it seemed like others had co-opted the message and done a better job with it. Like Perry he seemed a bit agitated, but unlike Perry, he didn't seem unhinged in his emotional reaction, and instead just seemed agitated the whole time.

For a guy who has energy and can relate, Chris Christie looked worn out, and answered almost like he was. I thought this would be the place for him to come out swinging, but it seemed like it was almost the opposite here. I liked his answer on drug rehabilitation, but I found it oddly conflicting with his stiff stance on pot, though I could understand it.

[Panda Express]

Now I see why Rubio has lost over half his support...

Clearly. He's done. Sad really. He's way too immature and shallow.

Rubio speaks, Kerry listens, and then they chat. Whatever you think of Rubio, I have never seen anyone use voice intonation as effectively as he. He is able to project and channel his passion like a laser beam to cut to the chase of his central point with maximum effectiveness.  Most with his level of passion end up running off the tracks and ending up a train wreck, because they lack his iron discipline - and that is what it is - discipline - the discipline to focus. Every word carries its weight. I know the feeling. I have been there once or twice in closing argument at a trial. I will never forget that feeling.

[Tender Branson]

Was this thing "watchable" ?

Maybe I'll watch the FOX debate, but I'm not sure yet ...

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Now I see why Rubio has lost over half his support...

Clearly. He's done. Sad really. He's way too immature and shallow.

Rubio speaks, Kerry listens, and then they chat. Whatever you think of Rubio, I have never seen anyone use voice intonation as effectively as he. He is able to project and channel his passion like a laser beam to cut to the chase of his central point with maximum effectiveness.  Most with his level of passion end up running off the tracks and ending up a train wreck, because they lack his iron discipline - and that is what it is - discipline - the discipline to focus. Every word carries its weight. I know the feeling. I have been there once or twice in closing argument at a trial. I will never forget that feeling.

Yeah, I don't usually think of Rubio when I think passion. I think Sanders, or possibly Trump.
Clinton, Chafee, and Pataki probably have about zero passion between the 3 of them.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Was this thing "watchable" ?

Maybe I'll watch the FOX debate, but I'm not sure yet ...

It's watchable, but it's mediocre as far as actually being enjoyable. Probably best to watch it in chunks rather than all at once.

[Mr. Morden]

Was this thing "watchable" ?

Maybe I'll watch the FOX debate, but I'm not sure yet ...

It's watchable, but it's mediocre as far as actually being enjoyable. Probably best to watch it in chunks rather than all at once.

I would just skip around to whichever candidates you're most interested in viewing, and/or look for any highlights.  There's no reason anyone should be subjected to five minutes of George Pataki.

[Blair]

god, just watched the first 5 minutes. Do they always do the pledge with that huge flag hanging over?

[Simfan34]

Bush: Watch out for ISIS trying to recruit people via Twitter.

This happens.

[Mr. Morden]

Those of you who didn't watch it and don't want to watch the whole thing, if you go here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMeDf6FeyRO1bvj0DXEZQKg/videos

you can view the performance of each candidate individually, rather than slog through the questions aimed at candidates you don't care about.

[Torie]

This is a snarky - and thus entertaining - review of last night's performance.