Vice Presidential Election Amendment (Debating)

[Senator Cris]

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Sponsor: Senator Kalwejt

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I've always thought it's going to be more interesting to elect the Vice President separately instead of "voting" for an attached name. Our elections are what this game is based on and should be more interesting.

Beside, I also think it's going only to be much more fair to actually elect a VP, who's after all the "spare president", instead of having a choice effectively made by the candidates for President. It's working very well in a number of countries, as well as our own regions.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I'm kind of partial to this, since this is the California system. On a more serious note, I also think that this would lend itself to electing more active and engaged VPs. This amendment has my support.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

On a more serious note, I also think that this would lend itself to electing more active and engaged VPs. This amendment has my support.

I haven't thought of this but you're absolutely right. People would have to seek the office (and expectations would be higher) instead of posting "I'm running with..." in declaration thread and frequently nothing else.

[Lumine]

You would have the problem of the VP office still being somewhat unappealing, but then again the Vice-President can also have a cabinet portfolio (and in my opinion is should be done from now on, making it easier to form a cabinet).

So yes, I will support this as well.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Meh, but I won't oppose it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I support this as well. I think we still need to add some responsibilities to the VP though, to make it more enticing a prospect.

[Senator Cris]

I'm supporting this act as well, but the language of the current text is not perfect.

This is my amendment:

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Senators have 24 hours to object.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Friendly, ftr.

[Prince of Salem]

Wait, the text "with a Vice President" should remain. Otherwise, there'd be no formal mention of when the Vice President is elected.

[Prince of Salem]

Oh, and I totally support this amendment. I think it'll make things more interesting

[Senator Cris]

The amendment has been adopted.

This is an amendment about Senator Altsomn Stmarken's point. Change in red.
Senators have 24 hours to object.

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[/quote]

[Senator Cris]

The amendment has been adopted.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

There's been some talk about giving the VP more powers and if it should be a separately post, such proposals seems even more logical.

How about we include a provision to mandate that the VP must concurrently serve as head of the of cabinet departments?

[Lumine]

There's been some talk about giving the VP more powers and if it should be a separately post, such proposals seems even more logical.

How about we include a provision to mandate that the VP must concurrently serve as head of the of cabinet departments?

I would support that, certainly, although we should make it clear that the positions allowed are not GM, SoFE and RG (essentially leaving AG, SoIA, SoEA and positions created by executive order).

[Prince of Salem]

We could do both here too. But I'm skeptical about giving the VP and the DoJ to the same person.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Double serving the AG as something else will invariable risk a conflict of interest at some point regardless of what post it is. I think we should look at it in terms of systemic risk, what could a VP do as VP that also being AG could allow for him to get away with that he would otherwise be charged for?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Double serving the AG as something else will invariable risk a conflict of interest at some point regardless of what post it is. I think we should look at it in terms of systemic risk, what could a VP do as VP that also being AG could allow for him to get away with that he would otherwise be charged for?

Good point. But that would leave only SoEA and SoIA as prospective jobs.

[Prince of Salem]

I think we could make the VP concurrently serve as head of the DoIA and the DoEA. On the DoJ, we could discuss what you where proposing in the other thread with the President.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Double serving the AG as something else will invariable risk a conflict of interest at some point regardless of what post it is. I think we should look at it in terms of systemic risk, what could a VP do as VP that also being AG could allow for him to get away with that he would otherwise be charged for?

Good point. But that would leave only SoEA and SoIA as prospective jobs.

Well my actual point was is VP any more risky then say SoEA or SoIA and does the systemic risk demand that we decline to take such a step?

[Associate Justice PiT]

Double serving the AG as something else will invariable risk a conflict of interest at some point regardless of what post it is. I think we should look at it in terms of systemic risk, what could a VP do as VP that also being AG could allow for him to get away with that he would otherwise be charged for?

     A good point. The President could appoint a special prosecutor to charge the AG, but we would be demanding that the President pay close attention to affairs that may be tangential to what he does.

     A potential idea for making the chief executive more powerful: eliminate the AG and vest the power to press charges and appoint counsel to defend the government in the President directly.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Double serving the AG as something else will invariable risk a conflict of interest at some point regardless of what post it is. I think we should look at it in terms of systemic risk, what could a VP do as VP that also being AG could allow for him to get away with that he would otherwise be charged for?

     A good point. The President could appoint a special prosecutor to charge the AG, but we would be demanding that the President pay close attention to affairs that may be tangential to what he does.

     A potential idea for making the chief executive more powerful: eliminate the AG and vest the power to press charges and appoint counsel to defend the government in the President directly.

IIRC some regional governors have such powers. So it's either powers to press charges and appoint counsel (since I don't think the President should personally take part in trails), or appointing a permanent prosecutor/solicitor.

[Cassius]

I'm going to oppose this, largely because I feel that having a President and Vice -President  who are elected separately could lead to a potentially tricky situation if the two hold substantially different views (which is more likely than if they're both on one ticket).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Its seems we got VP debate occuring in the cabinet reorganization thread and cabinet talk going on in the VP thread.

Anyway, another issue was raised in the Cabinet reorganization thread and that concerned the independence of the VP with regards to the Presidency. This also dovetails with the concerns that Cassius has brought up. Assuming it is seperately elected, to what extent would the President exercise authority over the office?

[Cincinnatus]

Its seems we got VP debate occuring in the cabinet reorganization thread and cabinet talk going on in the VP thread.

Anyway, another issue was raised in the Cabinet reorganization thread and that concerned the independence of the VP with regards to the Presidency. This also dovetails with the concerns that Cassius has brought up. Assuming it is seperately elected, to what extent would the President exercise authority over the office?

This is a fair point, and I will wait until I hear Kal's opinion on this matter, however, I still share the same concerns as before.  The Vice President should play a leading role leading the Senate in full or partial capacity.