How bad was Scott Walker's answer regarding abortion during the Debate?
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  How bad was Scott Walker's answer regarding abortion during the Debate?
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Author Topic: How bad was Scott Walker's answer regarding abortion during the Debate?  (Read 3976 times)
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captainkangaroo
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« on: August 07, 2015, 08:13:02 PM »
« edited: August 08, 2015, 05:25:12 PM by captainkangaroo »

Here's the question and answer if anyone's wondering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quFCm2Xt6xY

I think this could look really bad for Walker down the road. Unless he's able to clarify the "alternatives" he alluded to in his answer I think he's in trouble. This isn't quite Todd Akin level of stupidity but it's close given that Walker is a Presidential candidate and Akin was a House Representative.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2015, 08:37:33 PM »

It sounds even weirder given the discussion was about him not even wanting to give women abortions to save their lives.

What alternative is he promoting to women? Death in childbirth?
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Mister Mets
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2015, 08:43:20 PM »

With 24 million people watching, it could be worse than Akin.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2015, 08:47:32 PM »

It sounds even weirder given the discussion was about him not even wanting to give women abortions to save their lives.

What alternative is he promoting to women? Death in childbirth?

For those who can have the child without dying, putting the child up for adoption.
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2015, 09:07:24 PM »

It sounds even weirder given the discussion was about him not even wanting to give women abortions to save their lives.

What alternative is he promoting to women? Death in childbirth?

Abortion is actually never necessary in order to save a mother's life:

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/11/is-abortion-ever-necessary-to-save-the-life-of-the-mother/
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whanztastic
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2015, 09:11:21 PM »

I'm sure lifenews is a very unbiased source
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longtimelurker
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2015, 09:13:51 PM »

It sounds even weirder given the discussion was about him not even wanting to give women abortions to save their lives.

What alternative is he promoting to women? Death in childbirth?

Abortion is actually never necessary in order to save a mother's life:

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/11/is-abortion-ever-necessary-to-save-the-life-of-the-mother/

Then explain this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

We won't even get into ectopic pregnancies.
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2015, 09:20:41 PM »

It sounds even weirder given the discussion was about him not even wanting to give women abortions to save their lives.

What alternative is he promoting to women? Death in childbirth?

Abortion is actually never necessary in order to save a mother's life:

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/11/is-abortion-ever-necessary-to-save-the-life-of-the-mother/

Then explain this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

We won't even get into ectopic pregnancies.

There are procedures designed to save mothers' lives which, sadly, may indirectly lead to the deaths of their unborn children; but these procedures aren't abortions in the true sense of the term. Killing the unborn child is not the intent behind such procedures.

That's the point the article I linked to tries to make.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2015, 09:39:41 PM »

I'm sure lifenews is a very unbiased source

As opposed to the HuffPost?

I am a pro-life union man, so Scott Walker's comments caused me to think positively about him for a short period of time.  Not enough to vote for him, but enough to give him props for being morally consistent with the premise that life begins at conception.

I noted, by the way, that Megyn Kelly (I think) mentioned that Walker's position might hurt him amongst women because of the lack of a rape/incest exception.  Such a comment by a FOX News "commentator" signals a sea change in what the GOP views as pro-life.  Soon, the GOP's "pro-life" stance will be limited to opposing only "partial birth abortion" and "publicly funded abortion".  Just wait and see; they're getting ready to jettison the pro-life movement.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 10:01:37 PM »

I seriously like Walker and I don't exactly consider myself quite the pro-choice guy, but Walker's answer was ridiculous. No matter how you spin it, opposing abortion to save a woman's life is not "a position that's in line with everyday America" at all.
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CapoteMonster
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 10:06:28 PM »

I seriously like Walker and I don't exactly consider myself quite the pro-choice guy, but Walker's answer was ridiculous. No matter how you spin it, opposing abortion to save a woman's life is not "a position that's in line with everyday America" at all.

Well said. Any canidate who stands for personhood is committing political suicide. Just look at what happened to Ken Buck in Colorado.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 10:12:07 PM »

I seriously like Walker and I don't exactly consider myself quite the pro-choice guy, but Walker's answer was ridiculous. No matter how you spin it, opposing abortion to save a woman's life is not "a position that's in line with everyday America" at all.

Well said. Any canidate who stands for personhood is committing political suicide. Just look at what happened to Ken Buck in Colorado.

Abortion is a powerful moral issue ONLY if the issue is the HUMANITY of the unborn child.

If that's NOT the issue, then being "anti-abortion" isn't being "pro-life"; it's being "pro-into other people's business".  It's only the issue of the humanity of the unborn child that renders the issue a moral one.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2015, 10:16:55 PM »

I seriously like Walker and I don't exactly consider myself quite the pro-choice guy, but Walker's answer was ridiculous. No matter how you spin it, opposing abortion to save a woman's life is not "a position that's in line with everyday America" at all.

Well said. Any canidate who stands for personhood is committing political suicide. Just look at what happened to Ken Buck in Colorado.

Abortion is a powerful moral issue ONLY if the issue is the HUMANITY of the unborn child.

If that's NOT the issue, then being "anti-abortion" isn't being "pro-life"; it's being "pro-into other people's business".  It's only the issue of the humanity of the unborn child that renders the issue a moral one.
Even if you consider the unborn child a person, I think it would be really strange to say that one should prioritize this unborn child's life over the mother's life - which is exactly what opposing abortion to save a mother's life means.

In my opinion, in this kind of tragic situation, the mother's life is the most important and should be saved first, even if an abortion is needed.
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Likely Voter
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2015, 10:42:49 PM »

Can you imagine what the gender gap would be with Walker v Hillary. Stuff like this and his 'forced ultrasounds are cool' comment would just kill him. He would likely lose white women (along with non-white women and non-white men). And there simply arent enough white men to make up the difference.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2015, 10:46:48 PM »

Can you imagine what the gender gap would be with Walker v Hillary. Stuff like this and his 'forced ultrasounds are cool' comment would just kill him. He would likely lose white women (along with non-white women and non-white men). And there simply arent enough white men to make up the difference.
Yep, this comment might have rendered him unelectable.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2015, 10:47:22 PM »

I seriously like Walker and I don't exactly consider myself quite the pro-choice guy, but Walker's answer was ridiculous. No matter how you spin it, opposing abortion to save a woman's life is not "a position that's in line with everyday America" at all.

Well said. Any canidate who stands for personhood is committing political suicide. Just look at what happened to Ken Buck in Colorado.

Abortion is a powerful moral issue ONLY if the issue is the HUMANITY of the unborn child.

If that's NOT the issue, then being "anti-abortion" isn't being "pro-life"; it's being "pro-into other people's business".  It's only the issue of the humanity of the unborn child that renders the issue a moral one.
Even if you consider the unborn child a person, I think it would be really strange to say that one should prioritize this unborn child's life over the mother's life - which is exactly what opposing abortion to save a mother's life means.

In my opinion, in this kind of tragic situation, the mother's life is the most important and should be saved first, even if an abortion is needed.

I agree with that, but those situations are extremely rare.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2015, 10:59:40 PM »

No exceptions is an extremely problematic position for a candidate to take and still remain electable. I would expect that he would reverse his position should he get the nomination, but that sort of strategy doesn't usually work out well.
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dudeabides
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« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2015, 11:07:52 PM »

Here is the correct answer:

"I believe that the pro-life position is the morally right position to hold, I'm not worried about the politics of it. It's very personal to me. However, I do believe that in the extreme circumstance where a woman's health is in jeopardy, the decision should be between her and her doctor. However, I don't believe in abortion and believe states should outlaw abortion except for cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother. As President, I would defund Planned Parenthood, put in place President Reagan's Mexico City Policy, and fight to overturn Roe Vs. Wade to allow this sensitive issue to be settled by the people and state governments"
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Higgs
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« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2015, 12:40:26 AM »

It sounds even weirder given the discussion was about him not even wanting to give women abortions to save their lives.

What alternative is he promoting to women? Death in childbirth?

Abortion is actually never necessary in order to save a mother's life:

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/11/is-abortion-ever-necessary-to-save-the-life-of-the-mother/

Then explain this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

We won't even get into ectopic pregnancies.

Did you even read his article? They directly address ectopic pregnancies, and the point is those kind of procedures aren't considered abortions.
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shua
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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2015, 01:08:46 AM »

It sounds even weirder given the discussion was about him not even wanting to give women abortions to save their lives.

What alternative is he promoting to women? Death in childbirth?

Abortion is actually never necessary in order to save a mother's life:

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/11/is-abortion-ever-necessary-to-save-the-life-of-the-mother/

Then explain this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

We won't even get into ectopic pregnancies.

Did you even read his article? They directly address ectopic pregnancies, and the point is those kind of procedures aren't considered abortions.

This amounts to a semantic argument about what constitutes an abortion.  If Walker does not consider such procedures to be true abortions, he needed to say so.  He could say something like "If something needs to be done to save the mother's life, even if it ends up taking the unborn child's life in the process, it's a tragedy, but it is not in the same category as an abortion."  But that's not what Walker said.  He said something about other alternatives always being possible, which just sounds like wishful thinking. Hopefully someday there are no life-threatening pregnancies, but we are not there yet.
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Torie
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« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2015, 07:59:29 AM »
« Edited: August 08, 2015, 08:04:38 AM by Torie »

It was bad, and would hurt him in the General. But he isn't going to be the nominee. Walker is like a high rise in Los Angeles, that was not built to sway when the ground moved (see shua's suggested response above as a good example of a nice sway). Thus, when the ground moves, the building fails because it's too rigid.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2015, 09:54:31 AM »

What would happen if feminists in Wisconsin attempted to recall Walker for these comments in the middle of the Presidential campaign?  I will say that if you read the comment, it could be construed in such a manner as to suggest that he's let a woman die if, in fact, aborting the pregnancy was necessary to keep the woman alive in the very present moment.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2015, 10:28:54 AM »

What would happen if feminists in Wisconsin attempted to recall Walker for these comments in the middle of the Presidential campaign?  I will say that if you read the comment, it could be construed in such a manner as to suggest that he's let a woman die if, in fact, aborting the pregnancy was necessary to keep the woman alive in the very present moment.

Anyone trying to recall Walker for short of a criminal indictment would be a total game changer for the trends of his popularity in Wisconsin and his presidential campaign. Like, I'd almost wonder if Walker paid them to try it!
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Likely Voter
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« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2015, 10:31:35 AM »

BTW, let's not forget that Marco Rubio also took the exact same position in the debate. You can be sure that folks at Clinton HQ took note of that.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2015, 10:32:57 AM »

BTW, let's not forget that Marco Rubio also took the exact same position in the debate. You can be sure that folks at Clinton HQ took note of that.

Did he? I thought he'd only dismissed the rape exception part but didn't comment on the life of the mother part.
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