Apparently "Mock Parliment" is trying to put the final nail in the coffin?

[Adam Griffin]

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Apparently someone has drafted this temporary and/or permanent rule that says you can't serve as MP and be elected over here as well? What a bunch of crap - apparently they couldn't just let go of not succeeding at blowing up the game on the way out and are now spitefully trying to justify doing this through some "foreign relations" BS angle or something.

[Lumine]

I believe the clause itself was removed, but seeing a lot of support for it is part of why I am most likely not joining in for a while. Spiteful is the least harsh word I can find for it.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Yeah, that clause was struck out thanks to Leinad's efforts.

[windjammer]

Not surprising to be honest when you see who are advocating for it (talleyrand, TNF,...)

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Lol, I wonder if the mock parliament will last longer than 6 months this time?

[windjammer]

Lol, I wonder if the mock parliament will last longer than 6 months this time?

To be honest,
I tend to believe it will last longer. I mean, I understand why it can be considered as attractive. Every new game is.

[Oakvale]

I don't see the problem with this...?

Anyway don't worry guys, if my party wins the election in South America we may offer Atlasia a bailout.

[Oakvale]

Yeah, that clause was struck out thanks to Leinad's efforts.

It was struck out because I - and others - think it's something that should be a matter of debate over an election campaign but my personal view is that I'd support such a clause, at least for Cabinet positions. If Atlasia's to survive - which looks unlikely given the last election had 41% turnout and I didn't even know it was happening until it was over, but I digress - it'd be neat to have a foreign policy element.

[Talleyrand]

Going to pop in here for a bit-

I strongly reject the idea that this is some sort of scheme or motion to kill of Atlasia out of spite or whatever. Griffin and Windjammer should know better than to spout out meaningless accusations than that.

The idea behind the clause was to create a situation where you could see meaningful foreign policy between the two simulations without an unrealistic conflict of interest (I made this case on a post in the mock parliament board). The idea of two co-existing states actually originally came from some very pro-Atlasia individuals who haven't joined the South America simulation, including North Carolina.

My hope was that you'd end up with two smaller, but more stable and functioning games side by side. Keep in mind no one has proposed citizenship being limited to just one country, but just office holding, so someone could easily alternate offices in each game if they wished.

[windjammer]

Going to pop in here for a bit-

I strongly reject the idea that this is some sort of scheme or motion to kill of Atlasia out of spite or whatever. Griffin and Windjammer should know better than to spout out meaningless accusations than that.

The idea behind the clause was to create a situation where you could see meaningful foreign policy between the two simulations without an unrealistic conflict of interest (I made this case on a post in the mock parliament board). The idea of two co-existing states actually originally came from some very pro-Atlasia individuals who haven't joined the South America simulation, including North Carolina.

My hope was that you'd end up with two smaller, but more stable and functioning games side by side. Keep in mind no one has proposed citizenship being limited to just one country, but just office holding, so someone could easily alternate offices in each game if they wished.

Blablabla
This hypocrisy is so consterning.

[Lumine]

One thing is to wish for two nations, another one is to force people to choose between one of two games by using that sort of policy (because really, just voting and not being able to run for office defeats the purpose of these games in many ways).

Cynical and disappointed as I am on Atlasia I still believe it's not proper to force people into choosing a game in which they will be able to participate on its full gameplay, because to me that amounts to a lack of respect for the players and the games rather than an attempt at "realism".

Personally, I'd have no interest in joining the Mock Parliament if it's going to engage in that (not that anyone cares, of course).

[Oakvale]

FWIW I think the most likely scenario is a compromise wherein the positions of Prime Minister/Foreign Minsiter/Ambassador are off limits to foreign officeholders.

[Talleyrand]

One thing is to wish for two nations, another one is to force people to choose between one of two games by using that sort of policy (because really, just voting and not being able to run for office defeats the purpose of these games in many ways).

Cynical and disappointed as I am on Atlasia I still believe it's not proper to force people into choosing a game in which they will be able to participate on its full gameplay, because to me that amounts to a lack of respect for the players and the games rather than an attempt at "realism".

Personally, I'd have no interest in joining the Mock Parliament if it's going to engage in that (not that anyone cares, of course).

That's a reasonable point of view and some which a fair portion of people in the game seem to be taking, but the idea is to enhance and excite game play by creating a fundamental connection between the two games. I don't think this is anyone's biggest issue by far in the game, and it seems almost certain there will be a serious debate on it with both sides represented.

Anyway, what Truman pointed out earlier is that this clause was actually defeated by the provisional parliament because people believed it would be better for the elected parliament to vote on it. It currently isn't anywhere near effect.

Blablabla
This hypocrisy is so consterning.

Do you actually have anything of substance to say or do you just want to continue with snippy, incoherent one-liners?

FWIW I think the most likely scenario is a compromise wherein the positions of Prime Minister/Foreign Minsiter/Ambassador are off limits to foreign officeholders.

Yeah, this too.

[windjammer]

One thing is to wish for two nations, another one is to force people to choose between one of two games by using that sort of policy (because really, just voting and not being able to run for office defeats the purpose of these games in many ways).

Cynical and disappointed as I am on Atlasia I still believe it's not proper to force people into choosing a game in which they will be able to participate on its full gameplay, because to me that amounts to a lack of respect for the players and the games rather than an attempt at "realism".

Personally, I'd have no interest in joining the Mock Parliament if it's going to engage in that (not that anyone cares, of course).

That's a reasonable point of view and some which a fair portion of people in the game seem to be taking, but the idea is to enhance and excite game play by creating a fundamental connection between the two games. I don't think this is anyone's biggest issue by far in the game, and it seems almost certain there will be a serious debate on it with both sides represented.

Anyway, what Truman pointed out earlier is that this clause was actually defeated by the provisional parliament because people believed it would be better for the elected parliament to vote on it. It currently isn't anywhere near effect.

Blablabla
This hypocrisy is so consterning.

Do you actually have anything of substance to say or do you just want to continue with snippy, incoherent one-liners?

FWIW I think the most likely scenario is a compromise wherein the positions of Prime Minister/Foreign Minsiter/Ambassador are off limits to foreign officeholders.

Yeah, this too.

You wanted to abolish this game before you deregistered. There is nothing of substance to say because this is so obvious you plan to continue to sink (even more) this game. So assume what you're trying to do.

[Talleyrand]

My idea at the time was to end the game and then revitalize it with something else. Now that we have a mock parliament game which seems to be moderately succesful and would actually energize Atlasia too, I think that it's possible for this game survive too. Believe it or not, people's views change and adapt with different circumstances and different times.

[windjammer]

My idea at the time was to end the game and then revitalize it with something else. Now that we have a mock parliament game which seems to be moderately succesful and would actually energize Atlasia too, I think that it's possible for this game survive too. Believe it or not, people's views change and adapt with different circumstances and different times.

Yes I believe that views can change, but I find that difficult in your case considering you basically want to force people to play one game and not the other, difficult to see how you want to "energize" atlasia with that.

[Talleyrand]

I've already made a post explaining my position on the issue (which I encourage you to read). I've also expressed that a compromise suggested by Oakvale earlier in this thread might be a decent idea. I am not a villain trying to destroy Atlasia.

[Adam Griffin]

I just can't help but wonder why such an attitude would manifest at the onset, before any legitimate policies that could provide a collaborative spirit between the two games has been formed? Basically it's "well maybe at some point in the future we can act as two different countries and have relations but first let's make sure that no one can hold office in both". Just doesn't add up if you ask me; the genuine intent seems to speak for itself by being the element that is being more aggressively pushed. When you add to that the fact that it's largely the same players who wanted Atlasia to go boom after it fell apart on their watch, well...

[Foucaulf]

I clearly can't help myself posting in this thread, but let's cut the conspiratorial thinking out for a bit. Talley was the person who lobbied for the amendment, Leinad had a strong stand against it. In the end the restriction was removed by a margin of two.

Look, I don't harbor any ill will towards Atlasia. I wasn't the nicest person when I tried to play the game, but that's just a symptom of me coming to terms that the game is not right for me. In its current, hollowed-out state, Atlasia is not right for many people. And I think the people throwing snark at Mock Parliament's players should think about why the people they recruited into Atlasia ended up so disillusioned by it.

The reality increasingly seems to be that many players have tried to like Atlasia when they were completely fed up with it. Hopefully Mock Parliament can help us reach the golden mean somewhere.

[windjammer]

I clearly can't help myself posting in this thread, but let's cut the conspiratorial thinking out for a bit. Talley was the person who lobbied for the amendment, Leinad had a strong stand against it. In the end the restriction was removed by a margin of two.

Look, I don't harbor any ill will towards Atlasia. I wasn't the nicest person when I tried to play the game, but that's just a symptom of me coming to terms that the game is not right for me. In its current, hollowed-out state, Atlasia is not right for many people. And I think the people throwing snark at Mock Parliament's players should think about why the people they recruited into Atlasia ended up so disillusioned by it.

The reality increasingly seems to be that many players have tried to like Atlasia when they were completely fed up with it. Hopefully Mock Parliament can help us reach the golden mean somewhere.

Well that's fine and I wish you good luck with your new game that I hope will be successful,
But keep in mind something:
We have never tried to undermine your game and we expect the same in return.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I honestly don't mind the second game. It's actually good people have a choice. Some are active here, some there, some in both places.

What I mind is when some start view this as a competition where you need to bury the other game. If you don't want to play in Atlasia, then just don't play and f**k off.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

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Apparently someone has drafted this temporary and/or permanent rule that says you can't serve as MP and be elected over here as well? What a bunch of crap - apparently they couldn't just let go of not succeeding at blowing up the game on the way out and are now spitefully trying to justify doing this through some "foreign relations" BS angle or something.

If we decide to have a foreign relations with Mock Parliament, then provision of not holding office "in another nation" is entirely logical.

Yet I myself don't believe in "foreign relations" between Atlasia and Mock Parliament. I'd rather have two unique games with unique universes. And in such case, said provision is a petty bulls**t.

[Leinad]

Yeah, it's ridiculous. I'll certainly do what I can to keep this from passing when the others decide to vote on it, but I'm concerned. I encourage pro-Atlasians like Lumine to run for office in "South America" (still wish it was "Sudamerica") partially so we can stop this silliness.

I guess it's good to give people the benefit of the doubt, but Talleyrand and Al (one of the first to jump in defense of it when I objected) were two of the most pro-killing-Atlasia (not dissolution with plans to return, but just killing it), so it's not too much of a stretch to say that it is some kind of anti-Atlasian scheme now is it?

I am glad that I stopped it from passing the first go around, let's just hope myself and others can stop it the second time around.

[Senator Cris]

I wish the Mock Parliament game the best.
Honestly, I don't think we need to have diplomatic relations. I think the better solution is being two different games, in two different countries (North America and South America) and especially in two different boards (Mock Parliament for the South America game and Atlas Fantasy Elections for Atlasia).
And let me say that it's not necessary trying to bury Atlasia. Some of the people behind that proposal have already tried to do it. If you don't want to play in this game, no one forces you to do it.

[Oakvale]

Quite literally incomprehensible to me that Cris and Kalwejt recognise the potential for giving Atlasia an actual foreign policy and solving the 'vacuum problem' in one fell swoop yet say "nah, let's keep both games existing in their own empty worlds".