What about an Italian election game?

[Senator Cris]

Hi!
I had this idea in mind for quite some time and now I'd like to expose it.
I'd like to run an Italy election game about the next general election of 2018.

Let's start with the new electoral law: there will not be coalitions of parties, but only single lists. The list that reaches 40% of the votes gets a majority prize (majority of House seats). If no list will reach 40%, there will be a runoff between the 2 lists that got the most votes. In both cases, the winner will get 55% of total House seats. To get MPs, a list needs at least 3% of votes.
The Senate will not be elected by people, but it's a thing that wouldn't affect the game.

Considered that the Democratic Party has only minor allies, will not be difficult to inglobe them in the list. It's a lot more difficult for the centre-right. Actually, there are a lot of controversies between the North League and Popular Area (that is in the government coalition with the Democratic Party). So, if centre-right parties wants to get the runoff, they will be obliged to form a single list, but North League and Popular Area can't stay togheter in the same list. The most likely scenario would be a unity centre-right lists with all centre-right party except Popular Area, forced to run with his own list and getting involved in an hard fight to get 3%.

There are a lot of centre-right parties: Forza Italia (liberal conservatives), North League-We with Salvini (populists, right wing), Brothers of Italy (populists, right wing), Conservatives and Reformers (conservatives) and Do! (moderates). They should pick a leader (a candidate for Prime Minister) and a primary is the best thing. In an election game, each party should pick a candidate (5 parties = 5 candidates) and we might do a primary with the US system (primary in each region with delegates) or with a nationwide system (the candidate that get more votes is the winner or there is a runoff).

The left-wing of the Democratic Party is engaging a war with Matteo Renzi and most likely they will leave the party. But there are still differences with other left parties (Left Ecology Freedom, the Communists) and so I think there should be 2 left parties.

5 Stars Movement have rising stars that might run for President instead of Beppe Grillo. This is an interesting thing that the player should decide.

My idea is the follow: each player will run a party. Campaign schedule, TV appearances, debates, primary (only for centre-right parties and only one between centre-right parties player would advance to the general election campaign). The game would begin on late 2017.

These would be the parties:

- Democratic Party (centre-left, led by Prime Minister Matteo Renzi)

- 5 Stars Movement (populist, led by Beppe Grillo (but it might be a rising star like MPs Di Maio and Di Battista. It would be on the hands of the player.))

- Popular Area (centrist, centre-right, led by Minister Angelino Alfano)

- Centre-right unity list (centre-right, led by [TBD])
  - Forza Italia (centre-right, liberal-conservatism, actually led by Silvio Berlusconi (but  the Forza Italia's primary candidate should be someone else. There are rising stars and it would be on the hands of the player.)
  - North League/We with Salvini (right-wing, populism, euroscepticism, led by Matteo Salvini (someone is suggesting that Salvini might step down and allow Veneto gov. Luca Zaia to run, but it's very unlikely.It would be on the hands of the player. )
  - Brothers of Italy-National Alliance (right-wing, populism, euroscepticism, led by Giorgia Meloni)
  - Conservatives and Reformers (centre-right, conservativism, led by MEP Raffaele Fitto)
  - Do! with Tosi (centre-right, moderate, led by Verona Mayor Flavio Tosi)

- New party of PD's left-wing (centre-left, led by ? (Gianni Cuperlo, Pierluigi Bersani might be options but it would be on the hands of the player.))

- Left party (left, led by ? (Nichi Vendola, Pippo Civati, Maurizio Landini might be options but it would be as well on the hands of the player.)

10 parties = 10 players (when centre-right primary are finished, it would be 6). Maybe it is too high? We might merge the PD's left-wing and the "true left", in order to have 9 players (5 after the centre-right primary).
However, if there will be a lot of interest, we might add a new party to the centre-right coalition (a small party, but the primary would be more interesting) in order to have a total of 11 players (6 after the centre-right primary).

I opened this thread only to find if there are enough persons willing to play and to hear your suggestions (about the centre-right primary for example) and your questions. You can as well PM me.
If there will be enough interest, I'll open a sign-up thread with rules and especially an introductory post to the Italian politics (parties, politicians, polls, environment, ecc...)

[Cranberry]

Lega Nord, per favore!

This sounds like a really interesting idea, I'll definetely want to play! The only thing that could prove to get difficult is to get enough players with a good enough understanding of Italian politics (I myself, I'm afraid, have just a rudimentary knowlegde of Italian politics out of South Tyrol / Alto Adige), but I'm sure that if you are ready to give out help and information, you can still find enough interested players!

Non vedo l'ora!

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm definitely in.

However, it's very unrealistic to have Lega Nord run in a unity list with Forza Italia. In the current political climate, the differences are too large for the two to join their forces so closely. Salvini has been very critical of Berlusconi, and his goal is to supplant FI, not prop it up. For the sake of accuracy, you should keep them separate. Besides, more competition is fun.

Having the "moderate" minority faction split from the PD is somewhat more believable, but still highly unlikely. Bersani and Cuperlo want to retake the party from Renzi, not to form their own (which would get obliterated in the next elections).

[/]

In!

[Senator Cris]

I'm definitely in.

However, it's very unrealistic to have Lega Nord run in a unity list with Forza Italia. In the current political climate, the differences are too large for the two to join their forces so closely. Salvini has been very critical of Berlusconi, and his goal is to supplant FI, not prop it up. For the sake of accuracy, you should keep them separate. Besides, more competition is fun.

Having the "moderate" minority faction split from the PD is somewhat more believable, but still highly unlikely. Bersani and Cuperlo want to retake the party from Renzi, not to form their own (which would get obliterated in the next elections).

Believe me... FI and North League will do an unity list. They already formed coalitions in all regions in 2015, including Veneto, where a moderate hero (Tosi) was runnning but they preferred an alliance with Salvini.

About PD. I'm sure that a split would be fun and it's likely. Now or after the 2017 PD convention.

[Senator Cris]

Lega Nord, per favore!

This sounds like a really interesting idea, I'll definetely want to play! The only thing that could prove to get difficult is to get enough players with a good enough understanding of Italian politics (I myself, I'm afraid, have just a rudimentary knowlegde of Italian politics out of South Tyrol / Alto Adige), but I'm sure that if you are ready to give out help and information, you can still find enough interested players!

Non vedo l'ora!

In!

Great!

[Antonio the Sixth]

Cris, I have nothing against your gut feelings, and since 3 years is a very long time you might end up being right, but we need more objective criteria if we want to play this game properly. Uniting FI and LN, based on what we have seen so far, is not a reasonable option. Especially if, on the opposite side, you go out of your way to split forces as much as possible. I'm OK with a Bersani/Cuperlo splitoff, but then you need to be coherent and split Lega Nord as well.

[Senator Cris]

3 users interested in 12 hours is a great thing! With 6/7 more players we can start

About the Forza Italia/North League alliance. It will be a though thing in real life and there are pros and cons (that I'll expose in the introductory post), so we might let the player make a decision.

[Cranberry]

Thinking of it, Cris, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to prepone the elections so not that they are played as IRL in 2018, but at some point nearer to the present, sometime late 2015? The reason for this obviously being that we can play with the familiarity of present issues (austerity, the Renzi reforms, Greece, refugees... ), and you don't have to basically invent a timeline three years into the future, where for all we know the issues that matter to the Italians could be quite considerably different. (Not just saying this because playing Lega Nord with a refugee crisis going on is so much more fun )

If I may add to your discussion about a unified Centrodestra, while obviously my opinion is worthless because of me being basically clueless, I'd guess Antonio has quite the point when he says the differences between Salvini and Berlusconi, while mainly from what I could gather from personal nature, are quite too big to bridge; and I can't really see any of the two being ready to play second fiddle to each other in a coalition. But I'll rather let that to people who really know what they're talking about (that's you ).

[Senator Cris]

Thinking of it, Cris, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to prepone the elections so not that they are played as IRL in 2018, but at some point nearer to the present, sometime late 2015? The reason for this obviously being that we can play with the familiarity of present issues (austerity, the Renzi reforms, Greece, refugees... ), and you don't have to basically invent a timeline three years into the future, where for all we know the issues that matter to the Italians could be quite considerably different. (Not just saying this because playing Lega Nord with a refugee crisis going on is so much more fun )

If I may add to your discussion about a unified Centrodestra, while obviously my opinion is worthless because of me being basically clueless, I'd guess Antonio has quite the point when he says the differences between Salvini and Berlusconi, while mainly from what I could gather from personal nature, are quite too big to bridge; and I can't really see any of the two being ready to play second fiddle to each other in a coalition. But I'll rather let that to people who really know what they're talking about (that's you ).

Well, except for local elections there will not be general elections until 2018, so the player wouldn't be able to simulate a campaign during 2016 or early 2017.

[Cranberry]

Thinking of it, Cris, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to prepone the elections so not that they are played as IRL in 2018, but at some point nearer to the present, sometime late 2015? The reason for this obviously being that we can play with the familiarity of present issues (austerity, the Renzi reforms, Greece, refugees... ), and you don't have to basically invent a timeline three years into the future, where for all we know the issues that matter to the Italians could be quite considerably different. (Not just saying this because playing Lega Nord with a refugee crisis going on is so much more fun )

If I may add to your discussion about a unified Centrodestra, while obviously my opinion is worthless because of me being basically clueless, I'd guess Antonio has quite the point when he says the differences between Salvini and Berlusconi, while mainly from what I could gather from personal nature, are quite too big to bridge; and I can't really see any of the two being ready to play second fiddle to each other in a coalition. But I'll rather let that to people who really know what they're talking about (that's you ).

Well, except for local elections there will not be general elections until 2018, so the player wouldn't be able to simulate a campaign during 2016 or early 2017.

That's why I proposed to prepone the election in your game

[Senator Cris]

Thinking of it, Cris, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to prepone the elections so not that they are played as IRL in 2018, but at some point nearer to the present, sometime late 2015? The reason for this obviously being that we can play with the familiarity of present issues (austerity, the Renzi reforms, Greece, refugees... ), and you don't have to basically invent a timeline three years into the future, where for all we know the issues that matter to the Italians could be quite considerably different. (Not just saying this because playing Lega Nord with a refugee crisis going on is so much more fun )

If I may add to your discussion about a unified Centrodestra, while obviously my opinion is worthless because of me being basically clueless, I'd guess Antonio has quite the point when he says the differences between Salvini and Berlusconi, while mainly from what I could gather from personal nature, are quite too big to bridge; and I can't really see any of the two being ready to play second fiddle to each other in a coalition. But I'll rather let that to people who really know what they're talking about (that's you ).

Well, except for local elections there will not be general elections until 2018, so the player wouldn't be able to simulate a campaign during 2016 or early 2017.

That's why I proposed to prepone the election in your game

Oh, yes... we can anticipate the election to September 2016 (that means starting to play in early 2016), that's when the new electoral law (Italicum) will enter into force.

[Cranberry]

Thinking of it, Cris, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to prepone the elections so not that they are played as IRL in 2018, but at some point nearer to the present, sometime late 2015? The reason for this obviously being that we can play with the familiarity of present issues (austerity, the Renzi reforms, Greece, refugees... ), and you don't have to basically invent a timeline three years into the future, where for all we know the issues that matter to the Italians could be quite considerably different. (Not just saying this because playing Lega Nord with a refugee crisis going on is so much more fun )

If I may add to your discussion about a unified Centrodestra, while obviously my opinion is worthless because of me being basically clueless, I'd guess Antonio has quite the point when he says the differences between Salvini and Berlusconi, while mainly from what I could gather from personal nature, are quite too big to bridge; and I can't really see any of the two being ready to play second fiddle to each other in a coalition. But I'll rather let that to people who really know what they're talking about (that's you ).

Well, except for local elections there will not be general elections until 2018, so the player wouldn't be able to simulate a campaign during 2016 or early 2017.

That's why I proposed to prepone the election in your game

Oh, yes... we can anticipate the election to September 2016 (that means starting to play in early 2016), that's when the new electoral law (Italicum) will enter into force.

Why not still a bit eariler, December 2015, say, and start June/July 2015; that way, we can play with the issues of the present?

[Senator Cris]

Thinking of it, Cris, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to prepone the elections so not that they are played as IRL in 2018, but at some point nearer to the present, sometime late 2015? The reason for this obviously being that we can play with the familiarity of present issues (austerity, the Renzi reforms, Greece, refugees... ), and you don't have to basically invent a timeline three years into the future, where for all we know the issues that matter to the Italians could be quite considerably different. (Not just saying this because playing Lega Nord with a refugee crisis going on is so much more fun )

If I may add to your discussion about a unified Centrodestra, while obviously my opinion is worthless because of me being basically clueless, I'd guess Antonio has quite the point when he says the differences between Salvini and Berlusconi, while mainly from what I could gather from personal nature, are quite too big to bridge; and I can't really see any of the two being ready to play second fiddle to each other in a coalition. But I'll rather let that to people who really know what they're talking about (that's you ).

Well, except for local elections there will not be general elections until 2018, so the player wouldn't be able to simulate a campaign during 2016 or early 2017.

That's why I proposed to prepone the election in your game

Oh, yes... we can anticipate the election to September 2016 (that means starting to play in early 2016), that's when the new electoral law (Italicum) will enter into force.

Why not still a bit eariler, December 2015, say, and start June/July 2015; that way, we can play with the issues of the present?

I agree with you that December 2015 would be better for the timeline and more realistic than September 2016. But in real life, if there will be an election on December 2015, the new electoral law can't be used. So we should use the actual electoral law, that is a proportional law (4% treshold for parties out of a coalition, 2% for parties in a coalition but there isn't a majority price, that means caos). We can anticipate the election to December 2015 (a realistic thing) using the new electoral law (that should enter into force in July 2016), but it would not be realistic at all.

[Cranberry]

Thinking of it, Cris, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to prepone the elections so not that they are played as IRL in 2018, but at some point nearer to the present, sometime late 2015? The reason for this obviously being that we can play with the familiarity of present issues (austerity, the Renzi reforms, Greece, refugees... ), and you don't have to basically invent a timeline three years into the future, where for all we know the issues that matter to the Italians could be quite considerably different. (Not just saying this because playing Lega Nord with a refugee crisis going on is so much more fun )

If I may add to your discussion about a unified Centrodestra, while obviously my opinion is worthless because of me being basically clueless, I'd guess Antonio has quite the point when he says the differences between Salvini and Berlusconi, while mainly from what I could gather from personal nature, are quite too big to bridge; and I can't really see any of the two being ready to play second fiddle to each other in a coalition. But I'll rather let that to people who really know what they're talking about (that's you ).

Well, except for local elections there will not be general elections until 2018, so the player wouldn't be able to simulate a campaign during 2016 or early 2017.

That's why I proposed to prepone the election in your game

Oh, yes... we can anticipate the election to September 2016 (that means starting to play in early 2016), that's when the new electoral law (Italicum) will enter into force.

Why not still a bit eariler, December 2015, say, and start June/July 2015; that way, we can play with the issues of the present?

I agree with you that December 2015 would be better for the timeline and more realistic than September 2016. But in real life, if there will be an election on December 2015, the new electoral law can't be used. So we should use the actual electoral law, that is a proportional law (4% treshold for parties out of a coalition, 2% for parties in a coalition but there isn't a majority price, that means caos). We can anticipate the election to December 2015 (a realistic thing) using the new electoral law (that should enter into force in July 2016), but it would not be realistic at all.

Well, I guess it shouldn't be too unrealistic moving the entrance of the Italicum law a bit earlier? But anyway, it's your game, please proceed the way you want to.

[Senator Cris]

Thinking of it, Cris, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to prepone the elections so not that they are played as IRL in 2018, but at some point nearer to the present, sometime late 2015? The reason for this obviously being that we can play with the familiarity of present issues (austerity, the Renzi reforms, Greece, refugees... ), and you don't have to basically invent a timeline three years into the future, where for all we know the issues that matter to the Italians could be quite considerably different. (Not just saying this because playing Lega Nord with a refugee crisis going on is so much more fun )

If I may add to your discussion about a unified Centrodestra, while obviously my opinion is worthless because of me being basically clueless, I'd guess Antonio has quite the point when he says the differences between Salvini and Berlusconi, while mainly from what I could gather from personal nature, are quite too big to bridge; and I can't really see any of the two being ready to play second fiddle to each other in a coalition. But I'll rather let that to people who really know what they're talking about (that's you ).

Well, except for local elections there will not be general elections until 2018, so the player wouldn't be able to simulate a campaign during 2016 or early 2017.

That's why I proposed to prepone the election in your game

Oh, yes... we can anticipate the election to September 2016 (that means starting to play in early 2016), that's when the new electoral law (Italicum) will enter into force.

Why not still a bit eariler, December 2015, say, and start June/July 2015; that way, we can play with the issues of the present?

I agree with you that December 2015 would be better for the timeline and more realistic than September 2016. But in real life, if there will be an election on December 2015, the new electoral law can't be used. So we should use the actual electoral law, that is a proportional law (4% treshold for parties out of a coalition, 2% for parties in a coalition but there isn't a majority price, that means caos). We can anticipate the election to December 2015 (a realistic thing) using the new electoral law (that should enter into force in July 2016), but it would not be realistic at all.

Well, I guess it shouldn't be too unrealistic moving the entrance of the Italicum law a bit earlier? But anyway, it's your game, please proceed the way you want to.

Yes, we can.

At this point

- The new Senate law is passed, but with only 2 votes of margin in the Senate. The left-wing of the Democratic Party leave the party. Renzi hasn't a solid majority and, after having moved the entrance of the Italicum law, he resign.
- A general election is scheduled in Mid-December.
- There will not be a centre-left primary. Renzi will be the candidate of the Democratic Party.
- Popular Area will not join the centre-right coalition, regardless of the presence of the North League.
- Forza Italia launches an ultimatum to the North League. 2 weeks to decide. If they want to do a unity list, there will be a nationwide primary. If not, Forza Italia will do a primary with the other parties of the coalition. The decision would be in the hands of the North League player.
But Brothers of Italy is so close to Salvini. What will they do, if Salvini will decide to not form an unity list? Will they follow Salvini or Forza Italia? It's in the hands of the player. (but remember that if Brothers of Italy will do a unity list with Salvini, then the player will be obliged to leave the game so early. If Brothers of Italy will join the primary, the player might be able to play at least until the primary)
The other coalition parties, Conservatives and Reformers (Fitto) and Do! (Tosi) will partecipate in the primary, regardless of the presence of the North League.
Obviously the Forza Italia player should pick the candidate of the party in the primary. There are various rising stars and it will be in the hands of the player.
- The other parties (Five Stars, Left and left-wing of the Democratic Party) will be forced to choice their Prime Minister candidates.

So, the players should be initially 10 (then the number would narrow to 6 if North League will join the primary, 7 if North League will not join the primary or if Brothers of Italy will merge in an unity list with North League)

- Democratic Party
- Five Stars Movement
- Forza Italia
- North League
- Brothers of Italy - National Alliance
- Conservatives and Reformers
- Do!
- Left
- Left wing of the Democratic Party
- Popular Area

If there will be difficulties to reach 10 players, we can apply this scenario:

The players should be initially 8 (then the number would narrow to 5 if North League will join the primary, 6 if North League will not join the primary or if Brothers of Italy will merge in an unity list with North League)

- Democratic Party
- Five Stars Movement
- Forza Italia
- North League
- Brothers of Italy - National Alliance
- Conservatives and Reformers
- Left + Left wing of the Democratic Party
- Popular Area + Do!

Or we can apply a 9-players scenario (with Left and Left wing of PD togheter and Do! in the centre-right primary). The numbers of player would narrow to 5 if North League will join the primary, 6 if North League will not join the primary or if Brothers of Italy will merge in an unity list with North League

[Barnes]

I'd love to play. Are we picking parties now or later?

[Senator Cris]

I'd love to play. Are we picking parties now or later?

Later. I haven't posted enough informations. I'll post complete informations in the introductory post, so that you can pick the party.

Right now, there are 5 players. To start, we need at least another 3 players, so that we can play with the 8-players scenario. To play with the 9-players scenario, we need another 4 players. To play with the 10-players scenario (the most interesting), we need another 5 players.

[Cranberry]

Can I still get dibs on Lega Nord?

[palandio]

I'm in.

[Senator Cris]

We need at least another 2 players!

[Barnes]

We need at least another 2 players!

I think it's time that we call in some favors...

[/]

Cris just PM people you think might be interested

That's what I did for like 90% of the people in my ITL

[Senator Cris]

Cris just PM people you think might be interested

That's what I did for like 90% of the people in my ITL

I already did that
I'll try again.

[politicus]

In, if I can play as M5S.