Presidential Pardon Limitation Amendment (Failed)

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I don't suppose we could eliminate the presidential pardon althogether, right? I advocate for more power to the executive, but that particular one is just too easy to abuse despite limitations.

I wouldn't want to eliminate pardon per se, but Lumine's concerns does have some merit (we all remember the crap Tyrion pulled). How about transfering it to a Board of Pardons - not a permanent institution, but a designated group that would convey only when a pardon is being requested?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The decision to ensure that the President cannot pardon themselves was a thoroughly sensible thing. This move is unnecessary, I won't support it.

I mean, we're virtually at the point where we're giving the Vice President more active powers than the President.

Indeed. The President must have certain active and exclusive powers. Otherwise, it's just a guy who signs or vetoes bills, and we don't need a permanent, elected rubber-stamber.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Hardly stripping the position of all power, as you 3 insinuated, if you ask me.

I can't speak for the others, but what I meant was that right to grant pardons is the president's exclusive power and should remain so. Each branch of the government should have its specific exclusive powers, without interference from the other branches.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It is not from the President Polnut's of the world that we expect history making in the realm of executive excess.

That being said, I am somewhat sympathetic to the notion of balance of powers in this case. However, assuming the VP is independently elected, would still constitute the executive branch and would even acting in a cabinet position be placed in a hierarchical structure below that of the President nad there must be some means to preserve that sort of relationship in the VP amendment.

As for the pardon power, I would still like to hear more about this pardon board and how it woul operate were it not the Senate as Kalwejt framed earlier.

Hmm... for example a body of three members, one appointed by each branch of the government (that is President, Senate and the Supreme Court). Not a permanently working institution, conveing only when a pardon request has been made.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It is not from the President Polnut's of the world that we expect history making in the realm of executive excess.

That being said, I am somewhat sympathetic to the notion of balance of powers in this case. However, assuming the VP is independently elected, would still constitute the executive branch and would even acting in a cabinet position be placed in a hierarchical structure below that of the President nad there must be some means to preserve that sort of relationship in the VP amendment.

As for the pardon power, I would still like to hear more about this pardon board and how it woul operate were it not the Senate as Kalwejt framed earlier.

Hmm... for example a body of three members, one appointed by each branch of the government (that is President, Senate and the Supreme Court). Not a permanently working institution, conveing only when a pardon request has been made.

The President gives out few pardons so it would indeed be rarely used.

I'm not really advocating this, since I prefer the pardoning powers to remain with the president. Just an alternative.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

What do you think of a final vote (it's not a motion)?
I will not support this amendment.

Neither will I. I can't see this working out.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Motion for a final vote.

Seconded

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Nay