Opinion of Black Lives Matter

[Boston Bread]

Positive. I just wish their supporters will realize Sanders is the most suitable candidate for their cause.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's amazing how Wormyguy is already 4 years older than when he first joined, and yet hasn't gotten any better as a poster. Even Hamilton and Libertas are not quite as tedious as they used to be.

[Yelnoc]

Positive movement, albeit one that lacks the kind of substantive demands and organizational apparatus that would make it more than just a sort of disorganized opposition to the mass murder of black people in this country conducted daily by the occupying armies (i.e. the police) of Capital. The way forward for BLM is forging a revolutionary party that can coordinate the actions of the black proletariat (i.e. the driving force behind BLM, as opposed to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, which was certainly more petty-bourgeois in its character and general aims) with that of the whole proletariat for the kind of mass action that can overthrow the capitalist system from which modern race hatred arose.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying blacks should build their own party, rather than joining the CWI (or whichever group you're affiliated with)?

No. I'm saying that blacks should join with white workers to form a revolutionary party. The CWI is a social democratic outfit that I'm not affiliated with. I don't think that any of the pseudo-left outfits that make up the majority of 'the left' in the United States have the correct political perspective or any hope of becoming a vanguard party. We need to start from scratch.

Ah, my bad. I thought I remember you saying you were into the Sparts, maybe I have my internationals mixed up. Regardless, I'm really not partial to calls to professionalize some segment of a popular movement. That, IMO, just makes the movement easier to co-opt. It's the same reason why cops are always so eager to identify leaders at a protest, and will create leaders if there aren't any (for instance, by granting special privileges to self-appointed "negotiators").

[Thunderbird is the word]

Massive FFs.m

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

freedom movement, obviously

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Racist, divisive, and anti-police.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Framing police brutality/excessive force solely as a "black" issue is not a recipe for sustained progress against it IMO.

[Maxwell]

Lean Positive.

[madelka]

I agree with Oldiesfreak1854. Offensive, racist, angry, violent, divisive mob. In short: Trash. Unfortunately, they exert too much influence on the Democratic party.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

The concept is sound. Attempts to represent it as being somehow racist against white people or whatever are ridiculous, not so much because racism against white people is impossible--this is a matter of definition and there are always going to be people whose understanding of these things isn't especially structurally/sociologically oriented--as because it's intended to draw attention precisely to the fact that this is something that disproportionately (not exclusively, but very disproportionately) affects black people, and so turning it into 'All Lives Matter' or whatever else would in fact be derailing the subject into addressing related but technically separate issues. The idea that it's 'anti-police' and thus bad is also ridiculous, because there is nothing inherent to being a police officer that renders somebody above criticism, and if anything the high regard in which most people hold the police makes the incredibly widespread moral rot among them even more invidious. Having said all this, it's difficult to say that the behavior of a lot of these demonstrators in practice has been in any way helpful. Voted Freedom Movement on balance.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Framing police brutality/excessive force solely as a "black" issue is not a recipe for sustained progress against it IMO.

https://twitter.com/probirdrights/status/368542088897372161

[Famous Mortimer]

Framing police brutality/excessive force solely as a "black" issue is not a recipe for sustained progress against it IMO.

https://twitter.com/probirdrights/status/368542088897372161

The same thing could be used against BLM people who think Bernie Sanders is weak on race because he doesn't constantly talk about it/talks about other issues as well.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Framing police brutality/excessive force solely as a "black" issue is not a recipe for sustained progress against it IMO.

https://twitter.com/probirdrights/status/368542088897372161

You like to play the simpleton don't you?  Maybe at least try to engage with the substance of what I said next time, even if it is hard for you.

[TNF]

Positive movement, albeit one that lacks the kind of substantive demands and organizational apparatus that would make it more than just a sort of disorganized opposition to the mass murder of black people in this country conducted daily by the occupying armies (i.e. the police) of Capital. The way forward for BLM is forging a revolutionary party that can coordinate the actions of the black proletariat (i.e. the driving force behind BLM, as opposed to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, which was certainly more petty-bourgeois in its character and general aims) with that of the whole proletariat for the kind of mass action that can overthrow the capitalist system from which modern race hatred arose.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying blacks should build their own party, rather than joining the CWI (or whichever group you're affiliated with)?

No. I'm saying that blacks should join with white workers to form a revolutionary party. The CWI is a social democratic outfit that I'm not affiliated with. I don't think that any of the pseudo-left outfits that make up the majority of 'the left' in the United States have the correct political perspective or any hope of becoming a vanguard party. We need to start from scratch.

Ah, my bad. I thought I remember you saying you were into the Sparts, maybe I have my internationals mixed up. Regardless, I'm really not partial to calls to professionalize some segment of a popular movement. That, IMO, just makes the movement easier to co-opt. It's the same reason why cops are always so eager to identify leaders at a protest, and will create leaders if there aren't any (for instance, by granting special privileges to self-appointed "negotiators").

It's cool. The Sparts are part of the International Communist League, which is more or less calling for the refoundation of the Fourth International. Trots have far too many internationals.

I don't think that you get anywhere without leadership, demands, and a program of action. Occupy failed because it didn't have any, making it easy to co-opt its message and integrate its petty bourgeois student base into the overarching web of the Democratic Party. Black Lives Matter risks the same happening to it if it continues to float from tragedy to tragedy without definitive goals and a task for achieving them. Spontaneity only gets you so far, and leaderlessness makes defeat inevitable.

[Leinad]

Lean neutral. Like many things, it's a good cause, but they kind of miss the point. I agree that police brutality is a terrible problem, and that blacks receive a somewhat larger than proportional share of it, but I hate how they paint white people in general as the villain.

Making it about race is their first problem. Maybe it gets more clicks, but it gets less progress. Make it about criminal justice reform.

anti-police.

Is that a bad thing? When the police is as F'd up as our police is now, being against it doesn't sound bad.

I agree with these posts:

A little bit of both. On the whole, I'd say slightly negative but the movement is certainly right about the fact that there is an endemic of unnecessary killings of unarmed young black men by police.

But overall, I'm not a fan.  I think we all think that some cops are out of control and overly aggressive.  I think we also support some degree of police reform, depending on the jurisdiction.  But, I think the movement is focusing on the wrong things.  I think Black Lives Mater is too emotional and focused on individual people, and not focused on policy or solutions.  You see a lot of the same problems as Occupy Wall Street.  It's a movement that's intensely angry about a disparity, but that's where it ends.

I agree with all of bedstuy's post, actually, I just only chose one paragraph of it so I don't take up the entire screen with quoting.

[Suburbia]

Lean neutral. Like many things, it's a good cause, but they kind of miss the point. I agree that police brutality is a terrible problem, and that blacks receive a somewhat larger than proportional share of it, but I hate how they paint white people in general as the villain.

Making it about race is their first problem. Maybe it gets more clicks, but it gets less progress. Make it about criminal justice reform.

anti-police.

Is that a bad thing? When the police is as F'd up as our police is now, being against it doesn't sound bad.

I agree with these posts:

A little bit of both. On the whole, I'd say slightly negative but the movement is certainly right about the fact that there is an endemic of unnecessary killings of unarmed young black men by police.

But overall, I'm not a fan.  I think we all think that some cops are out of control and overly aggressive.  I think we also support some degree of police reform, depending on the jurisdiction.  But, I think the movement is focusing on the wrong things.  I think Black Lives Mater is too emotional and focused on individual people, and not focused on policy or solutions.  You see a lot of the same problems as Occupy Wall Street.  It's a movement that's intensely angry about a disparity, but that's where it ends.

I agree with all of bedstuy's post, actually, I just only chose one paragraph of it so I don't take up the entire screen with quoting.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Framing police brutality/excessive force solely as a "black" issue is not a recipe for sustained progress against it IMO.

https://twitter.com/probirdrights/status/368542088897372161

You like to play the simpleton don't you?  Maybe at least try to engage with the substance of what I said next time, even if it is hard for you.

difficult, considering there's no substance to engage with

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Framing police brutality/excessive force solely as a "black" issue is not a recipe for sustained progress against it IMO.

https://twitter.com/probirdrights/status/368542088897372161

You like to play the simpleton don't you?  Maybe at least try to engage with the substance of what I said next time, even if it is hard for you.

difficult, considering there's no substance to engage with

I made a statement of my opinion, at least some of the implications of which I thought were pretty clear for a country where 8/9 of the country is not black.  If you need me to spell it out further, you can ask me about it instead of running immediately to your dank memes that you think magically discredit those you disagree with.

"Black lives matter" is a great statement to make, given the way black lives have been and continue to be devalued in many ways in American society.  "All lives matter" is also a good statement, and should be embraced as the corollary within the context of killings and abuses from the criminal justice system, since not all of the victims are black, it is a systemic problem, that cannot be completely attributed to racism.  If you could somehow get rid of all racial prejudice from police and the courts, blacks would still be disproportionately in contact with police and the courts - so what are these encounters going to be like?  A fundamental reworking of the relationship between governmental force and those communities it is supposed to serve and protect is necessary, not just going after cops for real or supposed racial animus. 

The fact is blacks bear the harshest brunt of a system which can be violent and unjust towards those of all races.  The assumption being communicated that if you are not black it is not a problem you have to worry about facing personally creates an unnecessary distance from the issue for the majority of the American population.   

[Jacobtm]

I wonder if it might backfire on Democrats?

What do BLM people believe?

Whites are the root of all evil, the cause of all problems in the black community.

And then Democrats ask them to choose between Clinton and Sanders.

Not that black people will defect to the Republican party in droves, but even if BLM convinces some people that "this whole thing is rigged in favor of white people" and they just stay home, it could be an issue for Dems.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The movement is FF, but the organization is HP.

[DonaldTrumpForLife]

Black Lives matter should be destroyed.

[DonaldTrumpForLife]

Were going to FIGHT BLACK LIVES MATTER! AND DEFEAT IT!