Europe-Middle East-Africa Refugee Crisis General Thread
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Author Topic: Europe-Middle East-Africa Refugee Crisis General Thread  (Read 126455 times)
politicus
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« Reply #400 on: September 09, 2015, 01:41:57 PM »

Politicus let's ignore Mr. Larson comment and discuss the number, 500 000 are fewer people than you think. By Danish standards it would be around 30-35 000. It's a high number of people, but less than it sounds like at first.

How do you know what I think? Smiley

The number is high enough to provoke a political reaction in parts of the electorate if it is meant to be something going on year in and year out (not so much if presented as a one off emergency related phenomenon - but that was not what rob in call wrote).
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Helsinkian
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« Reply #401 on: September 09, 2015, 02:18:18 PM »

I used to be naive and think that the EU could be reformed: that it could somehow still return to the days of being a loose coalition centred around free-trade. Now I see that I was mistaken. There are only two possible future scenarios for the EU: a) it becomes a centralised super-state, or b) it is dissolved entirely. I hope for the latter scenario, but the first one is the more likely.
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ingemann
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« Reply #402 on: September 09, 2015, 03:50:13 PM »

Politicus let's ignore Mr. Larson comment and discuss the number, 500 000 are fewer people than you think. By Danish standards it would be around 30-35 000. It's a high number of people, but less than it sounds like at first.

How do you know what I think? Smiley
figure of speech

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There's no doubt this will provoke a political reaction, it already does (just listen to CSU). But in the short term I doubt we will see a new party spring up, while AfD have potential to take this position, I think it will hard for them to make the transformation. I think a counterreaction further down the line is more likely. When we look as Sweden as example it easier to see the reaction there, because SD already exist and have taken the position (I don't find it entirely unlikely that SD will hit 30% next election), while in Germany a new party have to be build up from the bottom and need to convince (enough) people that they're not crazies.
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ag
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« Reply #403 on: September 09, 2015, 05:11:58 PM »

I used to be naive and think that the EU could be reformed: that it could somehow still return to the days of being a loose coalition centred around free-trade. Now I see that I was mistaken. There are only two possible future scenarios for the EU: a) it becomes a centralised super-state, or b) it is dissolved entirely. I hope for the latter scenario, but the first one is the more likely.

I guess, you are still dreaming of being a Russian satelite.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #404 on: September 09, 2015, 07:15:05 PM »

These personal attacks on posters based on their home counties are becoming incredibly predictable and boring in general.
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Orthogonian Society Treasurer
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« Reply #405 on: September 09, 2015, 07:24:53 PM »

So now the German government says it can accept 500,000 per year for several years.  I wonder how this will be received, and whether this step toward ethnic, cultural transformation of Germany will be supported by Germans.  Would love to see an actual Swiss style referendum on the issue.

Does Merkel want a civil war? Because this how you spark a civil war.
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #406 on: September 09, 2015, 07:28:40 PM »

One could argue that current European policies on asylum/immigration are encouraging people to risk death to come there, and that restricting access to Europe would actually save lives as opposed to endangering them. Perhaps if Europe's borders were completely closed off, not as many people would be trying to enter it, thus resulting in fewer cases like that of Aylan Kurdi (whose family had already been staying in Turkey for three years).

This article seems to prove my point:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/migrant-wave-inspires-others-to-attempt-trek-to-europe-1441668591

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Also, the idea that Syrian refugees only have two options - ''Go to Europe'' or ''die in Syria'' - is a false dichotomy. There is no war going on in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, or the United States. Aside from Turkey (which still isn't exceptionally poor), all of these countries are wealthy and have ''very high'' HDIs. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United States in particular have actually been significantly involved in the Syrian Civil War; unlike Austria, Germany, Italy, Greece, Poland, Hungary, etc. Even if the Arabian Peninsula states can't be made to take any in (or if you object to their status as authoritarian states), that still leaves Turkey (which is at least a hybrid state) and the United States as options. The point is that their lives can be saved without Europe having to take them in. There are places outside of Europe that have both the ability to and are better suited than Europe to take in these refugees.
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Panda Express
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« Reply #407 on: September 09, 2015, 09:01:52 PM »

So I was planning a ~2 month backpacking trip through Europe next summer. But after reading this topic, I think I should just book a flight to Damascus instead. Seeing as how Europe will apparently become a desolate wasteland like the Middle East and all, it would save me time and money and I could get the same experience in Syria that I would have gotten in Europe.
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ag
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« Reply #408 on: September 09, 2015, 09:04:17 PM »

So now the German government says it can accept 500,000 per year for several years.  I wonder how this will be received, and whether this step toward ethnic, cultural transformation of Germany will be supported by Germans.  Would love to see an actual Swiss style referendum on the issue.

Does Merkel want a civil war? Because this how you spark a civil war.

As well as a plague of locusts and an acne epidemic among the pythons in a Frankfurt Zoo.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #409 on: September 10, 2015, 07:24:02 PM »

So now the German government says it can accept 500,000 per year for several years.  I wonder how this will be received, and whether this step toward ethnic, cultural transformation of Germany will be supported by Germans.  Would love to see an actual Swiss style referendum on the issue.

Does Merkel want a civil war? Because this how you spark a civil war.

No, you spark civil war by letting agitators like you go free.
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ag
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« Reply #410 on: September 10, 2015, 07:27:27 PM »
« Edited: September 10, 2015, 07:30:04 PM by ag »

These days, I am thinking a lot of a boy called Motl...
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #411 on: September 10, 2015, 09:20:13 PM »

Vincenzo Solano and Mercedes Ibanez, an elderly couple, have been murdered in Sicily by a migrant from the Ivory Coast:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11834743/Murder-of-elderly-couple-in-Sicily-fuels-Italys-growing-anti-immigrant-sentiment.html
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #412 on: September 11, 2015, 08:46:42 AM »


…relevant how?
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Beezer
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« Reply #413 on: September 11, 2015, 09:44:51 AM »

Bavarian state premier Horst Seehofer will invite Viktor Orban to the next conference meeting of his party's state parliamentary group. This is quite a big move considering that the German media and political class have painted Orban as an autocrat who's one step away from erecting concentration camps for refugees. Seehofer has also gone out of his way to criticize Merkel, calling her decision to accept refugees from Hungary a mistake.

(In German) http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/horst-seehofer-wettert-gegen-angela-merkel-in-fluechtlingspolitik-a-1052455.html
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #414 on: September 11, 2015, 09:57:25 AM »


Considering the course of this thread, I suppose it is relevant, in a tortured way. 
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #415 on: September 11, 2015, 11:13:35 AM »

Bavarian state premier Horst Seehofer will invite Viktor Orban to the next conference meeting of his party's state parliamentary group. This is quite a big move considering that the German media and political class have painted Orban as an autocrat who's one step away from erecting concentration camps for refugees. Seehofer has also gone out of his way to criticize Merkel, calling her decision to accept refugees from Hungary a mistake.

(In German) http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/horst-seehofer-wettert-gegen-angela-merkel-in-fluechtlingspolitik-a-1052455.html

Orban IS an autocrat who's one step away from erecting concentration camps for refugees, though.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #416 on: September 11, 2015, 10:13:43 PM »

Bavarian state premier Horst Seehofer will invite Viktor Orban to the next conference meeting of his party's state parliamentary group. This is quite a big move considering that the German media and political class have painted Orban as an autocrat who's one step away from erecting concentration camps for refugees. Seehofer has also gone out of his way to criticize Merkel, calling her decision to accept refugees from Hungary a mistake.

(In German) http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/horst-seehofer-wettert-gegen-angela-merkel-in-fluechtlingspolitik-a-1052455.html

She should dump CSU and create CDU-Bavaria, at last.
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politicus
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« Reply #417 on: September 12, 2015, 05:09:36 AM »

Bavarian state premier Horst Seehofer will invite Viktor Orban to the next conference meeting of his party's state parliamentary group. This is quite a big move considering that the German media and political class have painted Orban as an autocrat who's one step away from erecting concentration camps for refugees. Seehofer has also gone out of his way to criticize Merkel, calling her decision to accept refugees from Hungary a mistake.

(In German) http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/horst-seehofer-wettert-gegen-angela-merkel-in-fluechtlingspolitik-a-1052455.html

She should dump CSU and create CDU-Bavaria, at last.

You then get CSU Baden-Wurtemberg, Rheinland-Pfalz, Hesse etc.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #418 on: September 13, 2015, 05:55:58 AM »

The latest is that Austrian Chancellor Faymann called Orban's asylum policies "similar to the Holocaust", after which the Orban-government basically called on Faymann to go f**k himself.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/austrias-werner-faymann-likens-hungarian-pm-viktor-orbans-refugee-policies-to-nazi-deportations/articleshow/48938877.cms
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #419 on: September 13, 2015, 06:02:50 AM »

An Arab translator at Vienna train station recently estimated that 25-50% of the migrants arriving there "have no Syrian Arab dialect". He also spoke about a guy from Egypt who said that "now is the chance of his lifetime to sneak into Europe, using fake Syrian passports."

Oh man, try to defend that you naive leftists ...
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Beezer
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« Reply #420 on: September 13, 2015, 08:15:43 AM »

Deutsche Bahn is now using ICE high speed trains to move refugees across the country. People with regular tickets will have to find other trains. I feel things are really spiraling out of control now with tens of thousands of people entering Germany on a single weekend. The German government has no plan whatsoever beyond finding basic accommodations. What are we going to do with millions (!) of people with very little qualifications who have come to the country expecting to find the land of milk and honey? What about (genuine and warranted) security concerns? ISIS will use this opportunity to send fighters to Europe. I don't think we've had a momentous month or so in Europe since the fall of the Iron Curtain.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #421 on: September 13, 2015, 08:54:56 AM »

An Arab translator at Vienna train station recently estimated that 25-50% of the migrants arriving there "have no Syrian Arab dialect". He also spoke about a guy from Egypt who said that "now is the chance of his lifetime to sneak into Europe, using fake Syrian passports."

Oh man, try to defend that you naive leftists ...
You are inhumane Tender Sad There people are all true refugees Sad By saying this you are worse than Hitler Sad Etc etc etc...
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Beezer
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« Reply #422 on: September 13, 2015, 09:04:14 AM »

OK, this is gonna be entertaining. Merkel once again does a 180, plans to re-introduce border checks and deport anyone entering Germany from a safe third country (i.e. Austria). Godspeed, Tender...your country has just been merkeled.

http://kurier.at/politik/ausland/fluechtlinge-deutschland-plant-grenzkontrollen/152.464.595
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #423 on: September 13, 2015, 09:05:39 AM »

Deutsche Bahn is now using ICE high speed trains to move refugees across the country. People with regular tickets will have to find other trains. I feel things are really spiraling out of control now with tens of thousands of people entering Germany on a single weekend. The German government has no plan whatsoever beyond finding basic accommodations. What are we going to do with millions (!) of people with very little qualifications who have come to the country expecting to find the land of milk and honey? What about (genuine and warranted) security concerns? ISIS will use this opportunity to send fighters to Europe. I don't think we've had a momentous month or so in Europe since the fall of the Iron Curtain.

Don't worry, "Mhysa Merkel" will fix all of these problems ...

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DavidB.
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« Reply #424 on: September 13, 2015, 09:08:07 AM »

That's absurd. Germany was the first country to let go of the Dublin criteria. Then Merkel invited all people outside Europe over to Germany. She cannot do a 180 and send all these people, whom she basically invited herself, to other countries.
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