Europe-Middle East-Africa Refugee Crisis General Thread

[Tender Branson]

Stay classy, Pegida!

Stupid policies (supporting reckless, uncontrolled mass-immigration) leads to stupid reactions by some.

No surprises there ...

[Beezer]

Well, there was a guillotine at an anti-TTIP rally as well. People shouldn't make too much out of stuff like this.

[Tender Branson]

What's also worrying: There are spelling errors on both pictures.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Well, there was a guillotine at an anti-TTIP rally as well. People shouldn't make too much out of stuff like this.

I strongly disagree for several reasons.

1) It's a classical "two wrongs make a right" fallacy.

2) Judging from what I see on Facebook, posting that guillotine picture seems to be the standard counter-argument from Pegida apologists to the gallows picture. So, it's not a very original argument to make.

3) Judging from my own experience, Pegida supporters are potentially more dangerous than anti-TTIP protestors. In the last two months, I forwarded three mails/letters from anti-immigration people to the police due to its violent and/or threatening content at my work. I never had to do the same with mails from anti-TTIP people.

Of course, there's also some overlap between the anti-immigration and anti-TTIP people. The average member of the anti-Islam, anti-immigration, anti-America, pro-Putin, anti-Bilderberg, anti-Chemtrail, I-order-my-books-at-the-Kopp-Verlag crowd will naturally attend both Pegida and anti-TTIP rallies.

[Beezer]

I wish you were as concerned about the # of Jihadists that have probably entered Europe over the past couple of months thanks to failed migrant policies as you are over a simple, admittedly distasteful, piece of DIY protest paraphernalia. It was a mock gallows. I've seen plenty of those in protests across the western world w/o people getting their panties in a twist over them.

Cf.: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/anti-austerity-protesters-hang-suited-10203538

Now to address 2 particular points:

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Yes, two wrongs don't make a right. What annoys people though is that the media and state prosecutors see only one wrong in all of this. To be honest I didn't even come across the Anti-TTIP thing until today and I most certainly didn't see it in any mainstream media outlets. Now why is that the case? Could it be because TTIP-protesters are widely perceived to be relatively leftist? At the same time though the mock gallows were at the top of virtually every German media website earlier today.

And who cares about "originality"? Fact of the matter is that the whole thing is blown out of proportion, particularly at a time when we essentially have freedom of movement from the Middle East and NAfrica to the heart of Europe.

[rob in cal]

   Well, according to the Spiegel article already referenced, Gabriel has now said that Germany can only take one million migrants, so maybe his noose should be removed as he seems much to the right on this issue now, compared to those who are saying, (or at least were saying earlier), that Germany could take much more than a million.

[Tender Branson]

Austria warns migration crisis could lead to use of force on borders

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[Tender Branson]

Meanwhile, the Salzburg town of Bergheim (population: 4.800) will become the new place of a mass asylum camp of 400 (!), after the Austrian government passed the "Law of Force" last month.

The SPÖVP government once said that every town will not have to take up asylum seekers worth more than 1.5% of the town population.

For Bergheim, this means that 8% of the population will be asylum seekers though ...

http://salzburg.orf.at/news/stories/2736944

...

Bavarian police are arresting 8 young, male asylum seekers at the Salzburg/Bavarian border, after they went through the Saalach river illegally into Germany. Police chased them through the woods until they gave up:









http://salzburg.orf.at/news/stories/2736953

[Tender Branson]

The 2016 budget was presented today in parliament.

Costs for asylum will rise to 1.5 billion € next year (up from 150 million € two years ago and up from 500 million this year).

Every asylum seeker "costs us" 11.000€ a year for basic assistance + another 5000€ a year for integration matters such as German courses (there will be 85.000 asylum seekers in total).

(as a comparison, the typical Austrian retired woman/man with minimum pension gets 820€ a month, for a total of 11.000€ a year - after having paid into the system for 40-45 years).

For Germany, just multiply these numbers by 10-15 ...

[palandio]

There is a difference between "costing" 11.000€ a year and "getting" 11.000€ a year. You can't compare these numbers directly.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Pegida protestors present gallows for Merkel and Gabriel at a rally, and the public prosecutor who investigates whether the gallows constituted a "public incitement to crime" receives death threats now. Arson attacks against asylum-seeker homes have become normality and some morons had rigged posters with anti-Islamic slogans with razorblades.

It is always said that immigrants must adapt to German culture. Is this the culture they're supposed to adapt to?

[politicus]

The Sweden Democrats will now post "scare adds" in Turkish, Jordanian and Lebanese media to dissuade refugees from coming to Sweden. So they keep copy-catting the Danish right wing.

Meanwhile Moderate leader Anna Kinberg Batra has demanded immediate reinstatement of border controls in Schengen (temporarily during the crisis).

- "It is time that the government takes responsibility for the situation. It is an extreme situation that we see being worsened by the day. We must get a handle on who is coming here"

The Moderates have their party convention now and polls show they are losing voters to both Centre and SD over this - a liberal segment with youngish well-educated women over represented is going to Centre and a right wing with 60+ men as a core group is going to SD, so a bit of a dilemma for them.

[politicus]

The details and the financing is still not 100% in place, but the main elements in the EU-Turkey refugee agreement are:


EU gives:

- Speeding up visa liberalization for Turkish businessmen and students.

- Reopening various areas of the accession negotiations with Turkey (energy, EMU, human and political rights)

- Turkish politicians should be invited to future EU summits, which hasn't happened since 2006.

- A ca. 3 billion Euro contribution to handling refugees in Turkey.


EU gains:

- Turkey steps up border control and control of the Turkish coastline

- Readmission of migrants who have come into the EU from Turkey, but don't qualify for asylum.

- Opening of the Turkish labour market and educational system for Syrian refugees.

- Better protection of the refugees' basic rights in Turkey.


All sorts of problems lie ahead, but at least generally a positive development.

[DavidB.]

Well, Turkey obviously didn't deserve any of this, but I suppose that's the price we have to pay. A positive development indeed.

[politicus]

Hungary's Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto says to AP, that the Hungarians will close their border to Croatia from midnight today.

[Tender Branson]

Hungary's Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto says to AP, that the Hungarians will close their border to Croatia from midnight today.

Apparently, these cards are now given to refugees in the Turkey region in case Hungary and Croatia close their borders for good:

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Through Ukraine? Would that really be a feasible approach?

[politicus]

Through Ukraine? Would that really be a feasible approach?

No fighting in Western Ukraine and their security forces are stretched thin.

[DavidB.]

Exactly what I hoped for. I wish the honorable (ahem) people of Lviv and its surroundings good luck with this

[Green Line]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3275866/Christians-living-Sweden-told-convert-die-chilling-messages-Gothenburg-hotbed-ISIS-recruitment.html

Looks like the problems have already started in Sweden.  Who could have seen this coming...

[Tender Branson]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3275866/Christians-living-Sweden-told-convert-die-chilling-messages-Gothenburg-hotbed-ISIS-recruitment.html

Looks like the problems have already started in Sweden.  Who could have seen this coming...

Basically everyone, except our naive left-leftists on here who insist that this reckless swamp of migrants and potential terrorists is not a problem.

[dead0man]

...and even they've been really quite lately.

[Zioneer]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3275866/Christians-living-Sweden-told-convert-die-chilling-messages-Gothenburg-hotbed-ISIS-recruitment.html

Looks like the problems have already started in Sweden.  Who could have seen this coming...

The Daily Mail is a reputable source now?

[Tender Branson]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3275866/Christians-living-Sweden-told-convert-die-chilling-messages-Gothenburg-hotbed-ISIS-recruitment.html

Looks like the problems have already started in Sweden.  Who could have seen this coming...

The Daily Mail is a reputable source now?

Just pretend it's not real and not happening ...

Btw: it was reported by major Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter.



The left picture shows the Arabic letter "n" (inside red circle), signifying "Nasrani" (Christian), on a Christian home in Mosul in July, 2014. The right picture shows the same mark drawn this week on an Assyrian store in Gothenburg, Sweden.

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http://www.aina.org/news/20151014145500.htm

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/restaurangagare-hotades-med-is-budskap-konvertera-eller-do/

[MaxQue]

So, either a refugee, a Muslim who immigrated a long time ago or a SD member wanting to flare up racism could have done it.

No proof it's a refugee or not.