Europe-Middle East-Africa Refugee Crisis General Thread

[dead0man]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3275866/Christians-living-Sweden-told-convert-die-chilling-messages-Gothenburg-hotbed-ISIS-recruitment.html

Looks like the problems have already started in Sweden.  Who could have seen this coming...

The Daily Mail is a reputable source now?

The Daily Mail often sucks, no doubt, but if the thing being posted about actually happened (as in this case), this excuse for an argument is stupid.

So, either a refugee, a Muslim who immigrated a long time ago or a SD member wanting to flare up racism could have done it.

No proof it's a refugee or not.

and if it's proven it's a refugee?

[Middle-aged Europe]

Assassination attempt on Cologne mayoral candidate Henriette Reker. Reker is in surgery. The perpetrator is in police custody, reportedly he claims opposition to current immigration policies as motive. Election is tomorrow and will not be postponed.

[DavidB.]

Wow. That's some disgusting sh**t.

[politicus]

Assassination attempt on Cologne mayoral candidate Henriette Reker. Reker is in surgery. The perpetrator is in police custody, reportedly he claims opposition to current immigration policies as motive. Election is tomorrow and will not be postponed.

Sad news.

Tried googling her. Reker is an indy Green supported by CDU and parts of FDP?

[Middle-aged Europe]

Assassination attempt on Cologne mayoral candidate Henriette Reker. Reker is in surgery. The perpetrator is in police custody, reportedly he claims opposition to current immigration policies as motive. Election is tomorrow and will not be postponed.

Sad news.

Tried googling her. Reker is an indy Green supported by CDU and parts of FDP?

Basically, yes.

Perpetrator is a 44-year-old unemployed painter and varnisher, who probably picked Reker as a target because she's the departmental head responsible for the managment of refugees within the city administration.

[Tender Branson]

Tragic and sad.

But this is exactly the stuff I tried to warn you about. This silly, reckless mass immigration policy "stresses" the native population unnecessarily and makes them agitated. That is why I favour the common sense policy of only letting in the number of migrants the system is designed for, while directing the surplus immigrants to their airport so they can board a plane that takes them home from where they came from (or nearby).

[Beezer]

There are always going to be crazy people. I think we should wait before somehow laying the blame at the feet of everyone critical of Merkel's migrant policies. Of course you just know the mainstream parties will pounce on this and declare that all those not in favor of the government's position have blood on their hands.

[Sol]

Tragic and sad.

But this is exactly the stuff I tried to warn you about. This silly, reckless mass immigration policy "stresses" the native population unnecessarily and makes them agitated. That is why I favour the common sense policy of only letting in the number of migrants the system is designed for, while directing the surplus immigrants to their airport so they can board a plane that takes them home from where they came from (or nearby).

Why send them back to a war zone?

[politicus]

There are always going to be crazy people. I think we should wait before somehow laying the blame at the feet of everyone critical of Merkel's migrant policies. Of course you just know the mainstream parties will pounce on this and declare that all those not in favor of the government's position have blood on their hands.

Kölner Stadt-Anzeigersays says he shouted something about Angela Merkel's refugee policy while attacking, there doesn't seem to be any doubt this was politically motivated.

[politicus]

A former school i Kånna in Småland (southern Sweden), which should have been used as a refugee center, has been torched.

[Middle-aged Europe]

There are always going to be crazy people. I think we should wait before somehow laying the blame at the feet of everyone critical of Merkel's migrant policies. Of course you just know the mainstream parties will pounce on this and declare that all those not in favor of the government's position have blood on their hands.

Well, judging from what you can read in respective blogs, Internet forums and Facebook groups there are huge portions of the Pegida/pro-AfD scene which use a totally overblown, martial rethoric in their discussions. They talk about how Merkel committed "high treason" with her immigration policies and that Germans have a "right to resist" against that in accordance with Article 20, Section 4 of the constitution and so on. And it's always possible, if not likely, that someone will take that crap a little too serious at some point. The gallows at the Pegida rally in Dresden was the first step, this is the next. The next level will probably letter bombs to party headquarters or something like that.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Tragic and sad.

But this is exactly the stuff I tried to warn you about. This silly, reckless mass immigration policy "stresses" the native population unnecessarily and makes them agitated. That is why I favour the common sense policy of only letting in the number of migrants the system is designed for, while directing the surplus immigrants to their airport so they can board a plane that takes them home from where they came from (or nearby).

You don't yield to terrorists.

[politicus]

@Old Europe: Population changes are de facto irreversible and given the number of asylum seekers is very large (+ will result in family reunifications) and is unlikely to go down in the foreseeable future (at least according to UNHCR) it is an usual situation, especially with the next election so far out.

The question is if there is a point beyond which it simply isn't fair to consider something a normal political decision? And if you are approaching that point?

Germany doesn't really have constitutional methods for dealing with this situation (other than just pretending it is a normal situation).

A Volksbefragung (people's inquiry) is the only referendum option, and just non-binding plebiscite. So using it would rely on politicians being willing to follow a result.

The German constitution only allows early elections after a vote of no confidence or inability to form a majority government. So not really an option.

Given that there isn't really any realistic options for getting to vote on this monumental decision some strong reaction is unavoidable from the opponents. So far it has actually been milder than one would have expected (Germans are a remarkably disciplined bunch - and so are Swedes). You could hope civil disobedience will be the weapon of choice rather than violence, but continued low level violence with arson against refugee facilities and some direct attacks seems likely.

You would have had attacks from hardcore racists anyway, but the frustration of being unable to influence this is bound to increase the level of violence.

(I will emphasize that what makes it monumental is the cumulated effect of a continued migration - if one believes it is a temporary crisis it becomes a more "normal" crisis, but that seems unrealistic.)

[politicus]

Slovenia has deployed units from its Army to help the police guard their border to Croatia, while Hungary has chosen to reinstate border control towards Croatia.

It seems more and more likely that the alternative route through Romania, Ukraine and Poland will be pursued.

[Beezer]

There are always going to be crazy people. I think we should wait before somehow laying the blame at the feet of everyone critical of Merkel's migrant policies. Of course you just know the mainstream parties will pounce on this and declare that all those not in favor of the government's position have blood on their hands.

Well, judging from what you can read in respective blogs, Internet forums and Facebook groups there are huge portions of the Pegida/pro-AfD scene which use a totally overblown, martial rethoric in their discussions. They talk about how Merkel committed "high treason" with her immigration policies and that Germans have a "right to resist" against that in accordance with Article 20, Section 4 of the constitution and so on. And it's always possible, if not likely, that someone will take that crap a little too serious at some point. The gallows at the Pegida rally in Dresden was the first step, this is the next. The next level will probably letter bombs to party headquarters or something like that.

Meh, how's this any different from what you will encounter on left wing sites and their rhetoric towards governmental/state institutions? Obviously an attack like this is despicable but blaming a party like the AfD for the actions of a single lunatic is completely ridiculous.

[Antonio the Sixth]

But this is exactly the stuff I tried to warn you about. This silly, reckless mass immigration policy "stresses" the native population unnecessarily and makes them agitated.

Cry me a river. Clearly racist first-worlders are the people we should sympathize with.

[DavidB.]

Cry me a river. Clearly racist first-worlders are the people we should sympathize with.

Because everyone who wants to uphold the idea of a nationstate and believes in limiting immigration is automatically racist

[SNJ1985]

But this is exactly the stuff I tried to warn you about. This silly, reckless mass immigration policy "stresses" the native population unnecessarily and makes them agitated.

Cry me a river. Clearly racist first-worlders are the people we should sympathize with.

Well, we should certainly sympathize with the victims of the huge increase in crime that mass immigration has brought to Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Europe

http://www.d-intl.com/2013/11/08/multicultural-sweden-explodes-in-violence/?lang=en

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape?anid=7

[The Last Northerner]

But this is exactly the stuff I tried to warn you about. This silly, reckless mass immigration policy "stresses" the native population unnecessarily and makes them agitated.

Cry me a river. Clearly racist first-worlders are the people we should sympathize with.

Those damn racists need to have their votes drowned out!

[Antonio the Sixth]

But this is exactly the stuff I tried to warn you about. This silly, reckless mass immigration policy "stresses" the native population unnecessarily and makes them agitated.

Cry me a river. Clearly racist first-worlders are the people we should sympathize with.

Those damn racists need to have their votes drowned out!

Yes.

[Tender Branson]

But this is exactly the stuff I tried to warn you about. This silly, reckless mass immigration policy "stresses" the native population unnecessarily and makes them agitated.

Cry me a river. Clearly racist first-worlders are the people we should sympathize with.

Those damn racists need to have their votes drowned out!

Yes.

So you are not even trying anymore to hide the fact that you are in essence a Left-Fascist ?

By throwing the whole native citizen population of Europe into the "racist pot" and wanting their votes and voices be drowned out ?

The very people who elected our politically correct leaders (Merkel, Faymann & Co) and not the millions of (illegal) migrants who line up at the borders of countries they pick and choose to get welfare from ?

And only your views are counting anymore ? The posters with the (S) avatar are finally showing their true faces ...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Sorry if I don't sympathize too much with the plight of people who feel entitled to their privileges just because they were born in a certain place and have a certain religion/skin color, and want to deny those privileges to the rest of the world because muh homeland. I, as any decent person, stand with the unprivileged and the downtrodden.

[DavidB.]

^ This is basically the debate between the old European left-winger and the new European left-winger.

The old European left-winger worked for the well-being of his people, attempted to uplift the working class, and introduced a welfare system based on solidarity in a homogeneous society.

The new European left-winger has given up on the white working class and instead belittles them and their lifestyle, either doesn't really care about maintaining the welfare state or simply believes things about the productivity of non-Western immigrants that are not true, and thinks solidarity based on traditional nation-state patterns is racist and should be eradicated, just as the nation-state itself should be eradicated.

[Famous Mortimer]

You think conservative party led austerity is bad. Just wait until we redistribute all the wealth between Europe and Africa. 

[Beezer]

Afghan refugee stabbed and killed another Afghan in a refugee accomodation in eastern Germany. Then proceeded to stab an innocent bystander on the street who is now seriously injured as well.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/fluechtlinge-asylbewerber-bei-streit-toedlich-verletzt-a-1058354.html

German police union now calls for a fence to be erected at Germany's border:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlinge-polizeigewerkschaft-fordert-grenzzaun-a-1058353.html