Who would you support in the Soviet-Afghan War?
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  Who would you support in the Soviet-Afghan War?
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Author Topic: Who would you support in the Soviet-Afghan War?  (Read 1266 times)
The Free North
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« on: August 20, 2015, 12:37:48 PM »
« edited: August 23, 2015, 06:20:38 PM by (CT) The Free North »

As an outside observer?
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SWE
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2015, 01:08:13 PM »

The Soviets (not-pro Taliban)
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Zioneer
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2015, 01:21:39 PM »

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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2015, 01:25:20 PM »

I don't think wars are like football matches.

But anyway, the situation was incredibly messy. There were multiple factions in the PDPA - the war started in earnest when the Soviets decided to (literally) kill off one faction in favour of the other - and that was even truer of the Mujahideen. Soviet tactics were also considerably more brutal than is sometimes remembered (i.e. a common opinion amongst ex-Mujahideen in 2001 and after was that the US/NATO were a bunch of softies in comparison) and contributed considerably to the wrecking of Afghan society and what happened as a consequence.
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Murica!
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2015, 01:40:25 PM »

The Soviet Union(Literally normal)
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Cory
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2015, 02:15:14 PM »

The Soviets/Afghan Communists, hands down.
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2015, 03:32:39 PM »

Neither but if had to choose the Afghans, the Soviets were the greater threat to the world and freedom and would have used Afghanistan to increase their influence in the world possibly delaying an end to the cold war. Soviet Communism is more evil then any ideology except Nazism. Lastly the worst the tailban could do doesnt come close to matching the risk of a Nuclear Holocaust if the Soviets won.
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Crumpets
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2015, 03:39:57 PM »

Supporting the Afghan militias does not equal supporting the Taliban. Remember, the Taliban are first and foremost a Pashtun nationalist organization, and weren't even formally created until 5 years after the Soviet withdrawal. I would support the (slightly more) moderate factions within the mujahedeen, such as the Tajik forces led by Ahmad Shah Massoud, followed up with massive and unprecedented foreign aid in the aftermath of the war to rebuild the economy.
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2015, 03:44:36 PM »

Probably Afghanistan at the time, but neither with hindsight.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2015, 05:37:26 PM »

The Taliban could not have existed without the refugee camps over the border in Pakistan and they came into existence because... oh.
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Murica!
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2015, 05:59:54 PM »

Probably Afghanistan at the time, but neither with hindsight.
You would support the Afghan government but not the USSR?
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Computer89
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2015, 07:48:32 PM »

Probably Afghanistan at the time, but neither with hindsight.
You would support the Afghan government but not the USSR?

Yes see my reasoning
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Clark Kent
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2015, 07:53:32 PM »

The Mujahideen, definitely.
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2015, 08:22:16 PM »

Soviets (Anti-Terrorist)
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Murica!
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2015, 08:50:39 PM »

Probably Afghanistan at the time, but neither with hindsight.
You would support the Afghan government but not the USSR?

Yes see my reasoning
Both of you are aware that the Soviet Union was fighting on the side of the Afghan government, right?
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TNF
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2015, 10:08:04 PM »

The Soviet Union (sane)
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Computer89
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2015, 10:56:20 PM »

Probably Afghanistan at the time, but neither with hindsight.
You would support the Afghan government but not the USSR?

Yes see my reasoning
Both of you are aware that the Soviet Union was fighting on the side of the Afghan government, right?

I said the Afghan rebels to defeat the evil Soviets
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2015, 11:50:25 PM »
« Edited: August 21, 2015, 09:49:27 AM by Famous Mortimer »

I would have probably supported the rebels at the time because pretty much everyone who wasn't a Soviet hack did. Even countries like Cuba, while they officially offered tepid support, were extremely conflicted about the whole thing. The Soviet invasion was even what led to the Italian Communist Party and other Eurocommunists to officially break with Moscow. Not only were all establishment parties, centre-right and centre-left, supportive of the rebels, so was the New Left and even big chunks of the Old Left. Outside of the Soviet bloc itself, the PCF central committee were probably the only people who backed the Russians.

So I really doubt anyone, including all the people saying otherwise, would have taken what was seen as such an extreme view at the time, so against what absolutely everyone else in the political arena was saying.

In retrospect of course, the Soviets were totally right.
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2015, 11:53:58 PM »

I don't think wars are like football matches.

But anyway, the situation was incredibly messy. There were multiple factions in the PDPA - the war started in earnest when the Soviets decided to (literally) kill off one faction in favour of the other - and that was even truer of the Mujahideen. Soviet tactics were also considerably more brutal than is sometimes remembered (i.e. a common opinion amongst ex-Mujahideen in 2001 and after was that the US/NATO were a bunch of softies in comparison) and contributed considerably to the wrecking of Afghan society and what happened as a consequence.

Of course, the Soviets killed off that faction because that faction was verging on going full Pol Pot. The Soviets really did have the best intentions, although no one realized it at the time.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2015, 10:49:36 AM »

Of course, the Soviets killed off that faction because that faction was verging on going full Pol Pot.

Well yes: the PDPA was an entirely awful organisation full of very very scary people like pretty much all Asian Communist parties.

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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2015, 10:52:10 AM »

An interesting feature of the war, of course, were the blatantly racist arguments made by some people on the far left who were trying to either defend the USSR's actions or were trying to downplay their significance.
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The Free North
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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2015, 01:28:13 PM »

An interesting feature of the war, of course, were the blatantly racist arguments made by some people on the far left who were trying to either defend the USSR's actions or were trying to downplay their significance.

Blatant racism?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2015, 02:14:32 PM »

Yes, it is when someone expresses a racist view and does not bother to hide the fact that the view expressed is, indeed, racist.
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Blair
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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2015, 02:30:32 PM »

Whilst the Mujaheddin were hardly great why is everyone pretending that the USSR were still in the 1917 days of actually pretending to be good, with my extremely basic knowledge of soviet history you only have to look at their invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia, and trampling of Poland in the 1980's to see that the USSR was awful.

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Jacobtm
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2015, 04:45:43 PM »

From Alexander the Great, to the British Empire, to the USSR and the USA, the entire history of Afghanistan is of fending off foreign invaders.

It's silly to invade Afghanistan, let them do what they want there. They're fierce fighters who've earned their independence. You should show some respect for a people that are able to fight off so many powerful interlopers.
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