Trump: Make America White Again?

[Famous Mortimer]

However, if illegal immigrants were gone or significantly reduced in number, that would be a lot of construction, manual labor, gardening, dishwashing, etc. jobs that would suddenly need to be done and be filled by Americans making at least the minimum wage in their locality. Which would be better than these Americans having no income or living off welfare.

This is a myth, or even a hoax if you want. You can say whatever you want about global warming deniers, yet this is the way I see it an even much greater hoax still. They do the work that noone else is willing to do. Try to get your poor white unemployed neighbour to start cleaning toilets, and he probably wouldn't even talk to you anymore. And immigrants don't steal other people's work. Research show something like for every 10 new immigrant workers, something like 12 more jobs are created. By the way, did you know that most billionaires don't pay taxes at all? Neither do many/most multi national companies. Is that fair?

Completely untrue.

Do you think before the U.S. had millions of illegals, no one mopped? No one cleaned dishes? No one picked food, or did construction?

It isn't only cleaning toilets, illegals are huge in the construction industry for instance, you see them as landscapers/gardeners everywhere.

These are jobs that if there weren't illegals around, someone would have to do it.

The fact that you think there literally are not people you could pay to sweep the floors or clean toilets is silly, every country in the world has people to do these jobs. If no one wants to do it, well then the market would indicate that you should pay a higher price for that job. Businessowners would love to import quasi-slaves who they could pay almost nothing. But if that's not an option, then they'd have to actually pay a citizen the minimum wage.

I have no sympathy for the super-rich who pay no taxes, I do not worship at the altar of tax cuts.

The big thing you're ignoring is that our society isn't anything like what it was 100 or 200 years ago.  The United States is more educated and affluent than ever before.  There simply aren't enough native born working class people to fill these jobs, and someone who went to college is going to have no interest in what these kinds of low paying jobs.

You could argue that without immigrants, the wages for these jobs would rise until someone would work in them.  However, the wage for these jobs would have to rise so much, that these industries would either become untenable, or simply couldn't compete with low wage foreign competition.  This would be most strongly felt in the agriculture and manufacturing, and would have a ripple effect throughout our economy.

That's right, if we kick the immigrants out, the jobs will follow them overseas.  The only differences are that these people would make even less in their home countries, and we would be even more dependent on foreign labor.

I think this is just inaccurate. So many college graduates are underemployed, living with their parents, making $10 an hour at most, working as freelancers. I see no reason why such people wouldn't take $15 an hour cleaning jobs other than the fact that employers simply won't hire them because they're overqualified.

If businesses can't pay a decent wage, screw them, they deserve to go out of business.

Yes, Chinese restaurant jobs will go overseas but this won't really have an impact on America because no one left over here would have gotten those jobs anyway.

[Simfan34]

But then who'll work at the Chinese takeouts? As if they're on the books, as is.

[eric82oslo]

No matter how high the minimum wage is, employers will still hire immigrants because they will work for the lowest amount allowed. Hypothetically though, if you do raise the minimum wage high enough that employers decide they actually want people who can read and write English, that opens up a whole new problem. What then do you do with all the immigrants who are now unemployed? Do you allow more to keep coming in?

I know, I know. Loads of poor immigrants having children they can't afford is going to make lots and lots of jobs because the Cato Institute said so.

If it were just the Cato Institute, you would have a point.  However, there's an academic consensus that disagrees with you.

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And no, the Brookings Institution isn't a conservative think-tank.  It's centrist to center-left, on the whole. 

As the Time article explains:

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I understand that increased demand will indeed create increased job opportunities. I just think it's wishful thinking to imagine that unskilled immigration will create MORE jobs than there are new immigrants.

I think the number one reason for why this is a fact happens to be that most immigrants have already finished education, yet are still very young. The most common immigrant is in his 20s basically. Which means that the government doesn't have to pay anything in child care or education for him, yet rips the benefit of taxes, consume and hard labour. Secondly, it's also extensively proven that immigrants in general are both more hard-working (a great amount of Asians in Norway still have a 7 day work week for instance, even if Norwegian law demands rest after a certain amount of days [I think it's 7] and much less criminal (except immigrants from a tiny amount of unfortunate countries). Latinos are probably the least criminal immigrants in the Western world by the way. The exceptions are immigrants from extremely war torn countries or countries where literacy is shockingly low (like Somalia).

[eric82oslo]

But then who'll work at the Chinese takeouts? As if they're on the books, as is.

Lol. They would turn into West Virginian take outs I imagine. What kind of food do they even eat in those Appalachian mountains? Some kind of twerk to soul food?

[Famous Mortimer]

No matter how high the minimum wage is, employers will still hire immigrants because they will work for the lowest amount allowed. Hypothetically though, if you do raise the minimum wage high enough that employers decide they actually want people who can read and write English, that opens up a whole new problem. What then do you do with all the immigrants who are now unemployed? Do you allow more to keep coming in?

I know, I know. Loads of poor immigrants having children they can't afford is going to make lots and lots of jobs because the Cato Institute said so.

If it were just the Cato Institute, you would have a point.  However, there's an academic consensus that disagrees with you.

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And no, the Brookings Institution isn't a conservative think-tank.  It's centrist to center-left, on the whole. 

As the Time article explains:

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I understand that increased demand will indeed create increased job opportunities. I just think it's wishful thinking to imagine that unskilled immigration will create MORE jobs than there are new immigrants.

I think the number one reason for why this is a fact happens to be that most immigrants have already finished education, yet are still very young. The most common immigrant is in his 20s basically. Which means that the government doesn't have to pay anything in child care or education for him, yet rips the benefit of taxes, consume and hard labour. Secondly, it's also extensively proven that immigrants in general are both more hard-working (a great amount of Asians in Norway still have a 7 day work week for instance, even if Norwegian law demands rest after a certain amount of days [I think it's 7] and much less criminal (except immigrants from a tiny amount of unfortunate countries). Latinos are probably the least criminal immigrants in the Western world by the way. The exceptions are immigrants from extremely war torn countries or countries where literacy is shockingly low (like Somalia).

The government won't have to pay for child care because immigrants are in their 20s? Again, that's a whole lot of wishful thinking. Lots immigrants have children in their 20s, much more often than American born people do. That's the main problem, the main reason they are desperate for work and end up driving down wages. I guess in a sense though, its not strictly speaking immigrant child care that the government is paying for, since the children are often American born citizens, still, its extra social services costs taken on as a direct result of immigration.

[eric82oslo]

I think this is just inaccurate. So many college graduates are underemployed, living with their parents, making $10 an hour at most, working as freelancers. I see no reason why such people wouldn't take $15 an hour cleaning jobs other than the fact that employers simply won't hire them because they're overqualified.

Talking of which, the vast majority of immigrants are actually overqualified for their jobs, did you know that? Because the ple-clearance of education standards is so vastly different from country to country, you can easily be a university professor in your home country still end up with painting houses in your adopted country. I think this is the case with more than 50% of immigrants in fact. Yet still something basically no politician has ever said a word about.

[Mehmentum]

Whether the Brookings Institution is a conservative think tank or not is a matter of legitimate debate. Even if it's to be considered liberal, it's the least liberal liberal think tank there is. Exactly the type of market worshipers who think the economy should be measured primarily by the stock options of the super wealthy.

Dude. Can you even hear yourself? 'They're not liberal enough!  They're only slightly left of center!  I only trust data from the most liberal of sources.'

How about the Center for American Progress, is that liberal enough for you?  They better be, as they're one of the most liberal think tanks in the country.
Link.

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Here's the thing, though, we don't even need to rely on think tanks at all.  We can just look through the literature ourselves.

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So that's your solution, have college graduates spend their lives working at minimum wage?  How progressive of you.

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I was thinking more along the lines of manufacturing and agricultural jobs  The loss of these would have a very negative impact on our economy overall.

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Likely, the businesses we lose will go overseas.  The businesses will be just fine.  The workers on the other hand...

[DrScholl]

Darlene McBride's Take Back America Tour was similar to this. It was to keep the ugly melting pot from bubbling over on what used to be a nice, white stove.

[eric82oslo]

But then who'll work at the Chinese takeouts? As if they're on the books, as is.

Lol. They would turn into West Virginian take outs I imagine. What kind of food do they even eat in those Appalachian mountains? Some kind of twerk to soul food?

...

?

I know that soul food is the rubber stamp of Louisiana and Mississippi, yet I have no clue whatsoever what people are eating in West Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee to be perfectly honest. Would you care to enlighten me?

[Rockefeller GOP]

Is this thread for real?  Jesus.

[eric82oslo]

Is this thread for real?  Jesus.

What's wrong with this thread? Everyone with a brain seems to agree with its premise. I'm happy that the intellectual level of Atlas is so high that 80% of its users easily sees through the intellectual shallowness of Trump, unlike in the real world. We are the elite, people. Also: We are the establishment, in some kind of weird way.

[bobloblaw]

Is this thread for real?  Jesus.

What's wrong with this thread? Everyone with a brain seems to agree with its premise. I'm happy that the intellectual level of Atlas is so high that 80% of its users easily sees through the intellectual shallowness of Trump, unlike in the real world. We are the elite, people. Also: We are the establishment, in some kind of weird way.

Deport Illegals and end the H1B visa program. Simple and nothing shallow about that unless you love low wages.

[eric82oslo]

Is this thread for real?  Jesus.

What's wrong with twerking to soul food? Like soul food doesn't make you dance? Have you ever been with a black person? Or better still: A latino? Twerk is what happens when you eat the most delicious food man.

[eric82oslo]

Is this thread for real?  Jesus.

What's wrong with this thread? Everyone with a brain seems to agree with its premise. I'm happy that the intellectual level of Atlas is so high that 80% of its users easily sees through the intellectual shallowness of Trump, unlike in the real world. We are the elite, people. Also: We are the establishment, in some kind of weird way.

Deport Illegals and end the H1B visa program. Simple and nothing shallow about that unless you love low wages.

Unless you hate the world and want to self-destruct in a terrorist attack, YES, there is something MIGHTILY wrong with that! How shallow can possibly a human being get? Now I know that there exist an American who is even more shallow than Mister Trump and his name is Bobloblaw or something. Congratulations!

[eric82oslo]

In the Upper Midwest, they eat some of the same foods that you may eat in the Scandinavian region.

That's because in the upper midwest - Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota, Iowa, Montana - the vast majority are either Nordic (mostly Norwegian like me, though there are a great chunk of Finnish and Swedish people there as well) or German. Actually, there are more Norwegians currently living in the US than in Norway proper. Except for Ireland and Scotland, as well as for Puerto Rico, I think that's pretty unique for the entire world more or less. I might have missed one or two nationalities though.

[eric82oslo]

In Kentucky? You made too easy man, they eat fried chicken and the other dishes of the Southern variety I presume, that's what they're known for (KFC).

I love Kentucky Fried Chicken, one of my most favourite fast food chains in the entire world. Unfortunately there's no KFC in Norway, actually we just got Starbucks (!!!) some 2-3 years ago!! This is a true story!! Norway is like the last country in the world where multinational fast food chains decide to locate to. Probably because we have the highest minimum wages in the world by far. We just got a couple of Pizza Huts here I believe, yet Domino's won't come here still for years and years I guess. The problem with the international pizza chains is that we have our own pizza chain from the 70ies started by a couple whose husband was from Chicago and wife was Norwegian, who make by very extremely far the most saviour pizzas the world has ever known (and I'm such a pizza nerd that I could easily eat pizza 5-6 times a week and usually order pizza wherever in the world I go). The thing is though that the Peppe's Pizzas, which they are known as, are extremely expensive. Even so, the cheaper alternatives stand no chance in Norway, as tastewise they don't even reach 30% to the original. Peppe's Pizza is basically to Norway as the original recipe of Coca Cola is to the USA. And of course the recipes are equally secret.

[eric82oslo]

You just bumped this thread? Holy hell.

Holy you. Who are you? You are Trump incarnated or something?

[eric82oslo]

You just bumped this thread? Holy hell.

Holy you. Who are you? You are Trump incarnated or something?

What has Trump done to you that you use his name as an insult?

Do you care about human rights at all? AT ALL? Do you think it's an unlucky coincidence that almost every single US, German, or other European journalist compares his immigration policies to George Wallace, Vladimir Putin, Adolf Hitler, Nigel Farage, Silvio Berlusconi, Jean Marie Le Pen etcetera etcetera? A totally and completely total coincidence? Are you saying that most journalists are basically as stupid - if not even more - than ants?

[eric82oslo]

Discuss.

Apparently, white lives matter too!

Better yet, why don't you just make the headline, Trump Mobile crowd appears to be all white or something. That is your point isn't it? Blacks don't support Trump. Who knew?

There were at least three or four black people in attendance.

You're right. According to one news report, there was somewhere between 0.5% and 0.7% blacks in the audience. Which is impressive having in mind that Alabama is more than 25% black and its neighbour states are both far more black than that.

[eric82oslo]

Do you think it's an unlucky coincidence that almost every single US, German, or other European journalist compares his immigration policies to George Wallace, Vladimir Putin, Adolf Hitler, Jean Marie Le Pen etcetera etcetera?

WTF? You just mentioned Hitler and Wallace in the same sentence with Putin, Le Pen and Trump. Trump may be an annoying race baiting populist, but he's certainly no Hitler. Hitler comparisons don't make you look mature, kewl or edgey, you know. Also, I haven't heard any journalist say that. It's a flat-out lie.

Actually, you know what? No matter how cruel Hitler and his allies were, Hitler never deported people. The truth is that Trump's plan to deport between 11 and 12 million people would be by extremely far the greatest deportation effort in the history of human kind! The second biggest deportation campaign was considered one of the most racist campaigns in world history and involved Dominicans deporting a couple of million Haitians back to Haiti (and killing an extremly high percentage of them before they got anywhere). The human right abuses in that campaign are almost without precedent in American history. There have happened a few even more atrocious abuses in Latin America though, the most famous probably taking place in El Salvador and Paraguay, yet this deportation of Haitians might very well qualify in the top five of American human right abuses of all time.

[Maxwell]

Do you think it's an unlucky coincidence that almost every single US, German, or other European journalist compares his immigration policies to George Wallace, Vladimir Putin, Adolf Hitler, Jean Marie Le Pen etcetera etcetera?

WTF? You just mentioned Hitler and Wallace in the same sentence with Putin, Le Pen and Trump. Trump may be an annoying race baiting populist, but he's certainly no Hitler. Hitler comparisons don't make you look mature, kewl or edgey, you know. Also, I haven't heard any journalist say that. It's a flat-out lie.

To be fair, Hitler knew how to organize his people. Trump doesn't seem to have that same understanding, even as the neonazis of America are embracing him like no candidate before.

[Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez]

I would like to know just exactly what is wrong with enforcing our current immigration laws and deporting those who meet that criteria? 

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Do you think it's an unlucky coincidence that almost every single US, German, or other European journalist compares his immigration policies to George Wallace, Vladimir Putin, Adolf Hitler, Jean Marie Le Pen etcetera etcetera?

WTF? You just mentioned Hitler and Wallace in the same sentence with Putin, Le Pen and Trump. Trump may be an annoying race baiting populist, but he's certainly no Hitler. Hitler comparisons don't make you look mature, kewl or edgey, you know. Also, I haven't heard any journalist say that. It's a flat-out lie.

Actually, you know what? No matter how cruel Hitler and his allies were, Hitler never deported people. The truth is that Trump's plan to deport between 11 and 12 million people would be by extremely far the greatest deportation effort in the history of human kind! The second biggest deportation campaign was considered one of the most racist campaigns in world history and involved Dominicans deporting a couple of million Haitians back to Haiti (and killing an extremly high percentage of them before they got anywhere). The human right abuses in that campaign are almost without precedent in American history. There have happened a few even more atrocious abuses in Latin America though, the most famous probably taking place in El Salvador and Paraguay, yet this deportation of Haitians might very well qualify in the top five of American human right abuses of all time.

You need to quit while you're behind. What do you call forcefully moving peoples who were from previously uncontrolled territories and using them as slave labor (at best!)
Is importing (terminology?) better than be deporting? I am very pro-immigration, but you are just posting nonsense to troll. There are legitimate opposing views on this matter that don't come out of racism. As fuzzy states above me, this is the law already!

Your point on the Alabama Trump rally also made no sense. Why would Democrats show up to a Trump rally. They wouldn't show up for any of the 17 GOP candidates, including Carson. You want to see race politics? I went to Hillary and Obama rallies a mere train stop apart from each other in an evenly divided city (45-45 or something). The Obama rally was easily 80+% black. The Hillary rally had easily less than 5 blacks. Quite interesting, huh?

I wonder how many that radical right winger Bernie Sanders is getting?

[bobloblaw]

I would like to know just exactly what is wrong with enforcing our current immigration laws and deporting those who meet that criteria? 

For those who are self loathing and hate American Exceptionalism, everything.

The left would prefer a third world America they can rule over in perpetuity rather than a first world America that might vote GOP once in a while.

Liberal's ultimate goal is the repeal of the American Revolution.

[bobloblaw]

Do you think it's an unlucky coincidence that almost every single US, German, or other European journalist compares his immigration policies to George Wallace, Vladimir Putin, Adolf Hitler, Jean Marie Le Pen etcetera etcetera?

WTF? You just mentioned Hitler and Wallace in the same sentence with Putin, Le Pen and Trump. Trump may be an annoying race baiting populist, but he's certainly no Hitler. Hitler comparisons don't make you look mature, kewl or edgey, you know. Also, I haven't heard any journalist say that. It's a flat-out lie.

Actually, you know what? No matter how cruel Hitler and his allies were, Hitler never deported people. The truth is that Trump's plan to deport between 11 and 12 million people would be by extremely far the greatest deportation effort in the history of human kind! The second biggest deportation campaign was considered one of the most racist campaigns in world history and involved Dominicans deporting a couple of million Haitians back to Haiti (and killing an extremly high percentage of them before they got anywhere). The human right abuses in that campaign are almost without precedent in American history. There have happened a few even more atrocious abuses in Latin America though, the most famous probably taking place in El Salvador and Paraguay, yet this deportation of Haitians might very well qualify in the top five of American human right abuses of all time.

Because Jews voluntarily showed up to Dachau and majdanek.