Paraguay successful at denying 11-year old incest victim abortion
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  Paraguay successful at denying 11-year old incest victim abortion
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Author Topic: Paraguay successful at denying 11-year old incest victim abortion  (Read 2062 times)
afleitch
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2015, 06:52:24 AM »
« edited: August 27, 2015, 07:23:47 AM by afleitch »

Depends on the 11-year old whether a pregnancy would be a danger.  For most it would be, but the doctors were of the opinion it wasn't in this case. At some point you have to trust experts, or does that only apply to global warming?  The pregnancy was well past the point where I think abortion on demand must be an option and close to the point where I think it should not be an option, so despite that not being in Paraguayan law, it didn't have much of an effect.

This is a hard case, but it looks like other than they should have caught on to what was happening sooner, I can't say that I fault the Paraguayan authorities here. The fetus was close to viability, the female was not at immediate risk, and I don't believe rape or incest should make abortions easier to obtain.  The sole valid justification for restricting abortion is to protect what is considered to be a human life and no matter how vile the biological father is, that vileness has no bearing on whether it is a human life.

So astoundingly disconnected.

‘Depends of the 11 year old’ Depends on her what Ernest? Her pelvis, her vagina? I mean is that what’s important here when it comes to identify what qualifies as a danger to women; their physicality. Is it that base? You’re not stupid, so are you that ‘wicked’ to think that a woman’s mental health doesn’t matter? Are you 6 years old? I mean I ask that really; are you 6? Do you think a ‘seed get’s planted in mommy’s tummy’. Do you know what a pregnancy does to a woman? Obviously you’ll be thinking about the physical, but do you know what it does to a women psychologically? Even when it’s her partners and she wants it. Now imagine you’re 11. 11 years old and you’re raped, actually no, in this case she was 10. 10/11; doesn’t matter. It’s all about how roomy her gooch is I get it. You’re raped which is all sex can be at that age, not by a stranger but by someone you know. A relation. Who doesn’t even have the decency to wear any form of protection because, maybe he’s being a good Catholic. Maybe he think’s (because there’s good theological ground to interpret it this way) that it’s more of a crime than actually raping her.

But no, doesn’t matter. ‘Depends on the 11 year old’ No it doesn’t Not in a million years does it ‘depend’ on and 11 year old. NO ELEVEN YEAR OLD IS ‘READY’ TO DEAL WITH BEING RAPED AND FORCED TO GIVE BIRTH. NONE. PERIOD. GOT IT? GOOD.

Right, ‘the doctors didn’t think it was a danger’. Physically or mentally? Obviously only one is important enough to you, so let’s look at that one. Do you think doctors in a country with legal force against abortion, social stigma, stigma amongst some in the medical practice, do you think with their jobs at risk, or subtle threats to their professional status for ‘facilitating abortion’ (Go look it up. Take five minutes. On me), how often do you think they’re going to say ‘she can’t have the child’? Because I think the answer is going to be pretty f-cking low. Don’t you think? Even if you don’t take the position I do in that no 11 year old child rape victim is in anyway ‘ready’ to carry a child.

No one gives a damn about human life. Not really. If they did they’d have dealt with this from the get go. No. She was a football. A willing little modern day ‘Maria’ dragged out to full term so that they could simply say ‘no’ and show the braying crowd that they were hardliners on ‘protecting life’ while f-cking with hers.
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2015, 06:54:32 AM »

There are some times I say ok you should be able to have an abortion and this is one of them.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2015, 09:25:44 PM »

I got that she was raped, Andrew. What you seem to not get is that regardless of whether or not she had the abortion, she still would suffer from the trauma of rape.

Now, mental health is of course important, but we don't kill people to treat the mental health of others. Your definition of a person obviously does not include a 22-week fetus, but there are those for which it does. (As I've stated before, my uncertainty over the personhood status of fetuses between quickening and viability means I'll leave that value judgement to others who are less uncertain.) Under Peruvian law (as well as under the law of most countries that permit abortions) that 22-week fetus is treated as a person who cannot simply be killed without due consideration. (My understanding is that at 22 weeks is when the situation was discovered, if it was actually earlier, then it does affect my position for this specific case.)

One can argue that the doctors made the wrong call concerning the physical risk and/or the mental risk to the mother. You might be right about that. Neither of us is an expert in reproductive health. You almost certainly are right that those doctors faced social pressure regarding the decision, but that same pressure would also affect those who might have done the procedure in Paraguay even had the law allowed the abortion without getting an medical opinion as to its necessity into the legal record. If said social stigma was the determining factor in their decision, it would have been just as determinative regardless.

However, to argue that mental anguish alone is sufficient to justify putting to death another being, even a non-human being, is to me self-evidently wrong.  It seems to me a sociopathic elevation of the individual above all else that would enable one to answer the question found in biblical myth "Am I my brother's keeper?" with the answer of no.
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Jacobtm
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« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2015, 08:40:41 AM »

For all of you thinking the abortion is justified because this young girl will have such an awful life if this child is born:

Let's imagine she has the kid, and your idea is right, every sight of the child brings on unimaginable mental anguish. It is so bad, that she decides to kill the kid, let's say she just drowns it in the tub.

Would you think this is justified?
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Cory
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« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2015, 07:26:44 PM »

For all of you thinking the abortion is justified because this young girl will have such an awful life if this child is born:

Let's imagine she has the kid, and your idea is right, every sight of the child brings on unimaginable mental anguish. It is so bad, that she decides to kill the kid, let's say she just drowns it in the tub.

Would you think this is justified?

Considering people with your view would apparently force the 11 year old girl to have the kid, I think this is a question best asked of yourself.
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