Who do you think will win the Vienna state election ?
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  Who do you think will win the Vienna state election ?
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Poll
Question: Huh
#1
SPÖ
 
#2
FPÖ
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 32

Author Topic: Who do you think will win the Vienna state election ?  (Read 3797 times)
Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2015, 01:52:18 PM »

Blame Hifly.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2015, 12:56:37 AM »


Hifly is not to blame.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2015, 04:16:09 AM »


Yes he is, just read the first post in this thread. He is the one who randomly started trolling about immigration.
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Hifly
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« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2015, 04:33:09 AM »


Yes he is, just read the first post in this thread. He is the one who randomly started trolling about immigration.

I was poking fun at liberals and then you came in and literally just conformed to the stereotype, much to everyone's amusement and horror.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2015, 05:20:40 AM »


Yes he is, just read the first post in this thread. He is the one who randomly started trolling about immigration.

I was poking fun at liberals and then you came in and literally just conformed to the stereotype, much to everyone's amusement and horror.

But that's the problem. It's a thread on Vienna state election, not on hifly poking fun at people.

If you want your own thread, do it in the appropriate sub-forum, which is NOT International Election (unless you are an international election).

Quality is sadly declining on this forum since a couple of weeks, there is less and less analysis of elections and more sterile bickering from each side. I suppose I'm guilty of it too, I admit it. I don't come here to read bickering and I hope nobody comes here for the "drama". International Elections was always a high-quality information source and I hope it stays that way.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2015, 12:42:48 PM »

Besides, it's deeply disturbing that you advocate naturalizing foreigners only for the purpose of winning elections for center-left parties. If they have to rely solely on this to win, they are politically bankrupt because it shows that they have no solutions to actual problems...

That's not the only reason I support it. I also think taking in more immigrants is morally right as well as beneficial both economically and culturally. In short, there are only advantages. The electoral marginalization of racists is only a welcome side-effect. Wink


Why should it be morally right to crowd out a people in their own homeland?

The idea that people are being "crowded out of their homeland" is nonsense on so many levels. 
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politicus
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« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2015, 10:50:29 AM »

Besides, it's deeply disturbing that you advocate naturalizing foreigners only for the purpose of winning elections for center-left parties. If they have to rely solely on this to win, they are politically bankrupt because it shows that they have no solutions to actual problems...

That's not the only reason I support it. I also think taking in more immigrants is morally right as well as beneficial both economically and culturally. In short, there are only advantages. The electoral marginalization of racists is only a welcome side-effect. Wink


Why should it be morally right to crowd out a people in their own homeland?

The idea that people are being "crowded out of their homeland" is nonsense on so many levels. 

It is what Tony was describing.

Anyway, given the toxic climate surrounding all immigration related topics on here comments like "wrong on so many levels" are not helpful.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2015, 12:24:59 PM »

Yeah, let's go back to the topic of who's winning and losing the state election.

Anyway, a tough bitchfight between SPÖ and FPÖ should be good for turnout, also because the newcomers NEOS will draw people to the polls.

In 2010, there was already a fight between SPÖ and FPÖ and turnout increased from 61% to 68%, which in times of lower and lower turnouts here would be good news.

Maybe 70% could be reached, which would be good for a city of almost 2 million people. Hamburg for example had just 55% turnout recently.
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politicus
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« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2015, 03:04:39 PM »

Besides, it's deeply disturbing that you advocate naturalizing foreigners only for the purpose of winning elections for center-left parties. If they have to rely solely on this to win, they are politically bankrupt because it shows that they have no solutions to actual problems...

That's not the only reason I support it. I also think taking in more immigrants is morally right as well as beneficial both economically and culturally. In short, there are only advantages. The electoral marginalization of racists is only a welcome side-effect. Wink


Why should it be morally right to crowd out a people in their own homeland?

Because I don't believe that being born on the right side of a border gives you a right to deny people who were born on the wrong side the same chances you had in your life. As long as they conform to the basic democratic rules of the place they settle in, people should have the right to live wherever they want to.

That leaves countries as blank ahistoric spaces to be filled with whoever wants to go there. Individual rights are not everything. What about communal rights? The right of a people to have their own home land?

By your logic Tibetans have no special right to Tibet, even if it became a democracy the Han Chinese settlers would have the same rights as the natives. Greenlanders have no right to Greenland if minerals are found there and enough outsiders move there and laws protecting local land ownership in Pacific Islands (or, heck, Guernsey) are invalid.

Being a leftist and only recognizing individual rights has always been a strange and contradictory combo to me.
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Helsinkian
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« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2015, 03:26:10 PM »

One amusing inconsistency about the anti-nationalism of left-wingers: I have noticed that even though the leftists often denounce all nationalism, there is in fact one nationalism that they do approve: Palestinian nationalism. By saying that the Palestinians as a nation have a right to their own homeland, their nation-state, they are essentially promoting nationalism in this one case. For some reason they cannot fathom why European nations ought to have to same right to a homeland.
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Hash
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« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2015, 03:40:01 PM »

Let's try to keep this on topic, amigos.
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platypeanArchcow
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« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2015, 06:03:26 AM »

I'm sorry Hash, I have to de-lurk and barge in, because the stupidity in this thread is causing me insomnia.  Everyone ganging up on poor Antonio for staking out the sensible position.

politicus: I like how the literally the only examples you can come up with of places that have always been ethnically homogeneous are islands and frozen fuсking wastelands.  Everywhere else national territory has been a result of either 19th-century assimilationism (in Western Europe) or 20th-century ethnic cleansing (notably in Eastern Europe, but also pretty much everywhere else.)  There is nothing natural about the nation-state, it's a terrible 19th-century idea that has led and continues to lead to the deaths of countless millions of people.  Of course people should have the right to stay where they please and to form communities there, and access to the various protections that are accorded to minorities in a democratic society.  Why is it important to form a majority in "your" country?  Why is it harmful for other people to move in, assuming that economists are right that it's pretty much always economically beneficial?

Additionally, the conceptual confusion that nation-states engender between, say, ethnic Germans and natives of Germany seems to be a problem for a Europe that includes the children of immigrants.

Helsinkian: Surely you understand that there's a huge difference between a right not to have your land occupied by a country in which you have no stake and a right to a nation-state.  In theory, a one-state solution in which a democratic Israel relinquishes its claim to being a Jewish state and begins to represent all the people of Palestine would be a perfectly reasonable way to end the oppression of Palestinians.  In practice, of course, this is unworkable because after nearly a century of colonial relations the two peoples hate each other.  It's a weakness of democracy that it's unable to right wrongs that were perpetrated before it.  In North America we've "solved" this through genocide, making the original inhabitants an irrelevant minority.  But imagine if Jews had originally started to move to an independent, democratic Palestine, rather than to a British colony, and had themselves moved in as immigrants rather than colonists.  Then we would not be having this discussion right now at all.
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politicus
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« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2015, 06:38:32 AM »

Tempted to reply, of course, but I think we should follow Hash advice.

If I was mod I would delete both Antonios post and all responses to it (and clean up Tenders posts). That is probably the only way to safe this.

Alternatively Tender could just lock or delete this as it is just a prediction thread and not an election thread.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2015, 08:23:56 AM »

Tempted to reply, of course, but I think we should follow Hash advice.

If I was mod I would delete both Antonios post and all responses to it (and clean up Tenders posts). That is probably the only way to safe this.

Alternatively Tender could just lock or delete this as it is just a prediction thread and not an election thread.

It's now 50-50 anyway (which I expected), so I'll just lock it ...
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