Determining regulations of Constitutional Convention. (FINAL VOTE)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

this senate should not be picking nearly half the delegates. terrible amendment.

Nobody even likes your idea about random selection and the majority of active posters like this idea and if you didn't like this Admendment maybe you should tried harder to get elected.

go back to your neonazi rally or whatever kthx

I'm the neonazi here, look who's talking you commie.

Easy gentleman, lets not strangle each other before the convention even starts.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I support the amendment and would likewise extent a welcome to Truman on finally joining the Senate.

[Leinad]

Truman's amendment looks great, but are you sure September 21st is the earliest we can have it? It should be tied to the passing of the bill, shouldn't it? As in, X days after the bill's passing?

this senate should not be picking nearly half the delegates. terrible amendment.

Nobody even likes your idea about random selection and the majority of active posters like this idea and if you didn't like this Admendment maybe you should tried harder to get elected.

go back to your neonazi rally or whatever kthx

I'm the neonazi here, look who's talking you commie.

Neo-Nazi? Commie? Now now, Speakers, you two are better than that. And to clarify, it's not the name-calling, per se, it's the fact those are groan-inducingly cheap insults. Seriously, be more clever. "Neo-Nazi" and "Commie" are so lame I can't walk after reading them.

By the way, I'm not for nominating the delegates via post-count, I just think it's a better last-resort idea than random selection.

[Senator Cris]

The amendment has been adopted.

[Prince of Salem]

this senate should not be picking nearly half the delegates. terrible amendment.

There are strong regulations on who can the Senate pick; that should be mentioned.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Truman's amendment looks great, but are you sure September 21st is the earliest we can have it? It should be tied to the passing of the bill, shouldn't it? As in, X days after the bill's passing?

this senate should not be picking nearly half the delegates. terrible amendment.

Nobody even likes your idea about random selection and the majority of active posters like this idea and if you didn't like this Admendment maybe you should tried harder to get elected.

go back to your neonazi rally or whatever kthx

I'm the neonazi here, look who's talking you commie.

Neo-Nazi? Commie? Now now, Speakers, you two are better than that. And to clarify, it's not the name-calling, per se, it's the fact those are groan-inducingly cheap insults. Seriously, be more clever. "Neo-Nazi" and "Commie" are so lame I can't walk after reading them.

By the way, I'm not for nominating the delegates via post-count, I just think it's a better last-resort idea than random selection.

What length of time would  you suggest? A week maybe after passage?

[Senator Cris]

I'd be ok with one week after the passage.

[Simfan34]

I would like to reiterate my opinion that holding elections is overly time consuming and that, with all due respect to Cris' amendment, the complexity of the selection method bodes ill for the convention's prospect-- it is precisely what we seek to avoid. The "partisan designation" element in particular seems particularly convoluted. I again humbly suggest this idea for the Senate's consideration:

Voting on delegates would simply bog things down. Have the Senate select 10 delegates and the regions select 2 each, with a President of the Convention serving as a tie-breaker. It'd verge on the absurd if we let the organisation of the convention drag on for nearly as long as it took us just to get to this point.

What's needed is radical reform: dissolution of the present legislature, the election of a two-month, caretaker administration, a complete legislative reset, and a completely new and streamlined constitution at the minimum providing for regional consolidation, strong game simulation, and a focus on legislative flexibility and efficiency. Chuck everything out the window and start over-- no mucking about.

[pikachu]

I agree with Simfan. Elections would take a long time, and would somewhat of a mess. I do think that it's best to delegate the choosing of regional delegates to their respective governments, which have the benefits of being filled with newer players, and are less skewed from a partisan perspective than the Senate.

[Leinad]

What length of time would  you suggest? A week maybe after passage?

Sure, that sounds good.

I would like to reiterate my opinion that holding elections is overly time consuming and that, with all due respect to Cris' amendment, the complexity of the selection method bodes ill for the convention's prospect-- it is precisely what we seek to avoid. The "partisan designation" element in particular seems particularly convoluted. I again humbly suggest this idea for the Senate's consideration:

Voting on delegates would simply bog things down. Have the Senate select 10 delegates and the regions select 2 each, with a President of the Convention serving as a tie-breaker. It'd verge on the absurd if we let the organisation of the convention drag on for nearly as long as it took us just to get to this point.

What's needed is radical reform: dissolution of the present legislature, the election of a two-month, caretaker administration, a complete legislative reset, and a completely new and streamlined constitution at the minimum providing for regional consolidation, strong game simulation, and a focus on legislative flexibility and efficiency. Chuck everything out the window and start over-- no mucking about.

Holding elections isn't that time consuming (what, a few days? Why the rush?!?) and people would raise more valid concerns if there weren't elections--specifically that it's just a bunch of elites (Senators, Governors, and maybe even party chairs) hand-picking the delegates, instead of the entire populace. Even in an internet forum game, the power of the government is derived from the people, not the other way around. Therefore, the people should have a say via democratic elections.

Again, why the rush? Atlasia won't die if there's a few more days of making sure we get it right.

Regarding the complexity, what exactly is so complex? I don't think there's anything that would go over the heads of your average Atlas forum member. Be more specific on what is complex about it, and how to fix it.

Your proposals mostly just consist of radicalism to be radical. Why do we need to dissolve the present legislature, elect a caretaker administration, have a complete legislative reset before the convention? Not only is there no constitutional mechanism for this, and not much support for it other than yourself, but if having an election to the ConCon itself is too "time consuming," why isn't electing a caretaker administration also just as time consuming?

[Associate Justice PiT]

I agree with Simfan. Elections would take a long time, and would somewhat of a mess. I do think that it's best to delegate the choosing of regional delegates to their respective governments, which have the benefits of being filled with newer players, and are less skewed from a partisan perspective than the Senate.

     On the timescale of a convention, I doubt that the time needed to hold an election will be that big of a deal. At the same time, I do like the idea of giving the regional governments power in selecting delegates. Decisions, decisions.

[Prince of Salem]

I agree with Simfan. Elections would take a long time, and would somewhat of a mess. I do think that it's best to delegate the choosing of regional delegates to their respective governments, which have the benefits of being filled with newer players, and are less skewed from a partisan perspective than the Senate.

     On the timescale of a convention, I doubt that the time needed to hold an election will be that big of a deal. At the same time, I do like the idea of giving the regional governments power in selecting delegates. Decisions, decisions.

Yeah, I don't think we should hurry when we're still getting it done.

[Senator Cris]

I'd like to remember that citizens can propose amendments and asking a Senator to sponsor it for them.

[ilikeverin]

Wow, wow, wow, now you're talking about axing elections to determine who serves in the ConCon?!  What?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I'd like to remember that citizens can propose amendments and asking a Senator to sponsor it for them.

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[Senator Cris]

A public poll?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

as in an election, yes. maybe that could have been clearer.

[Senator Cris]

as in an election, yes. maybe that could have been clearer.

Citizens of other regions and even users that aren't registered in the game might vote.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

"public poll" in this context is another word for election. sorry for the confusion, go ahead and change it if you want.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I object to Evergreen's amendment. It is important, in constituting the Convention, to ensure that every national interest - not just the Regions - is represented. The current bill allows for delegates from the Regions, the electorate at-large (the 5 party delegates), and the national government: this balances  the competing concerns of these constituencies against each other, ensuring that the resulting Constitution will be fair for everyone.

[Senator Cris]

I object to Evergreen's amendment. It is important, in constituting the Convention, to ensure that every national interest - not just the Regions - is represented. The current bill allows for delegates from the Regions, the electorate at-large (the 5 party delegates), and the national government: this balances  the competing concerns of these constituencies against each other, ensuring that the resulting Constitution will be fair for everyone.

No senator have decided to sponsor that amendment. So, as of now, there isn't need for objection.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I object to Evergreen's amendment. It is important, in constituting the Convention, to ensure that every national interest - not just the Regions - is represented. The current bill allows for delegates from the Regions, the electorate at-large (the 5 party delegates), and the national government: this balances  the competing concerns of these constituencies against each other, ensuring that the resulting Constitution will be fair for everyone.

are you implying that the senate and regions are competing against the interests of the people...?

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I object to Evergreen's amendment. It is important, in constituting the Convention, to ensure that every national interest - not just the Regions - is represented. The current bill allows for delegates from the Regions, the electorate at-large (the 5 party delegates), and the national government: this balances  the competing concerns of these constituencies against each other, ensuring that the resulting Constitution will be fair for everyone.

are you implying that the senate and regions are competing against the interests of the people...?

No, I'm implying that the interests of the Regional governments are not necessarily synonymous with the interests of the people, and that it is therefore important for national institutions such as the Senate to be represented as well. That way, any less-than-honest motives of the Regions will be checked by the Senate, any less-than-honest motives of the Senate will be checked by the Regions, and we get a fairer Constitution as a result.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I object to Evergreen's amendment. It is important, in constituting the Convention, to ensure that every national interest - not just the Regions - is represented. The current bill allows for delegates from the Regions, the electorate at-large (the 5 party delegates), and the national government: this balances  the competing concerns of these constituencies against each other, ensuring that the resulting Constitution will be fair for everyone.

are you implying that the senate and regions are competing against the interests of the people...?

No merely that the interests of a majority of the citizens of the Northeast may differ from that of a majority of the citizens nationwide and keeping a degree of balance between the two is critical to ensuring both interests receive some degree of attention.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would like to see a list of reasons why the Senate should be completely excluded from the selection of any delegates, beyond just vague criticisms about it being the worst ever.