Philip Hammond is a moron

[dead0man]

link- the Gaurdian

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You mean by actually murdering civilians?  Idiot. 

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no sh**t?  Then he finished off with this gem.

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indeed.  So apparently, if you're involved in Syria, good or bad, all past and ongoing negative actions must be ignored RIGHT NOW....so we can talk.  'cause Syria!

[Hifly]

You are a moron.

[Phony Moderate]

Kneejerkism isn't as widespread here, you know.

[Simfan34]

Philip Hammond is directing a directionless foreign policy with no hint of strategic vision or even basic interest in its effects, and is abdicating Britain's place on the world stage as a result. Defense policy is being decided by the Exchequer, which means cuts and a woefully under-equipped military--for the first time in decades, the Royal Navy has no aircraft carriers-- now such in a sorry state of affairs that Obama has to beg Cameron to reconsider, while the World Service and the Foreign Office budget are being cut.

The Cameron government has excelled in many other ways, but not foreign and defence policy is not one of them-- it's abysmal. What is not abysmal. however, is their approach to the Iran deal.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

I agree with you dead0man.... and you Simfan

I cannot believe that the world is IGNORING Iran's behavior- their murderous terrorist actions...... their deeds match their words
It is also one thing for a fringe group to say some thing extreme,but when it comes from the LEADER of the nation- different story!

[Hifly]

I agree with you dead0man.... and you Simfan

I cannot believe that the world is IGNORING Iran's behavior- their murderous terrorist actions...... their deeds match their words
It is also one thing for a fringe group to say some thing extreme,but when it comes from the LEADER of the nation- different story!

what? is this a joke post or are you for real?

[Hifly]

Threads like this explain why I sometimes find it difficult to take Americans seriously.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Then perhaps you should not be posting on a board dedicated to AMERICAN politics.... I don't go onto your boards and trash your people....

And I could point to many,many examples of Iran's murderous terrorist actions- as I am sure you can as welll......sponsoring terrorist groups, sponsoring the murder of US troops (and I am sure British troops as well), etc....

[dead0man]

If you've forgotten why you put Hilfy on ignore, this thread is a great reminder.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Actually he's just ambitious and (like almost all Foreign Secretaries) is just repeating whatever the mandarins at the FCO have briefed him. The idea of an opening to Iran has been an obsession for years - because the country used to be as good as 'ours' and that sort of thing matters to the FCO - and a chance to put things back on track after the unpleasantness of a few years ago was always going to be eagerly seized on.

[Simfan34]

I was of the impression the Foreign Office was rather unpleased with Cameron's overall leadership so far.

But how far does this hankering for "our old stomping ground" go in the Foreign and Civil Service in the FCO? Is there some kind of wistfulness for a Commonwealth-oriented policy? A return to the East of Suez? A desire for a more assertive and engaged policy? Perhaps, even, a conviction that the end of the Empire was, on the whole, a bad thing for the world?

I would have thought they would have been more of an internationalist and Europhile bent, actually. I'm surprised to hear this.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

But how far does this hankering for "our old stomping ground" go in the Foreign and Civil Service in the FCO? Is there some kind of wistfulness for a Commonwealth-oriented policy? A return to the East of Suez? A desire for a more assertive and engaged policy? Perhaps, even, a conviction that the end of the Empire was, on the whole, a bad thing for the world?

No one, not even in the FCO, is that delusional these days.

[The Last Northerner]

How is this bad? This is 2015, not 1839 or 1939. He is being realistic about Britain's role in the world and acting like a statesmen, a sensible U-turn from their previous policies.

edit - removed partisan jab

[Blair]

Philip Hammond is directing a directionless foreign policy with no hint of strategic vision or even basic interest in its effects, and is abdicating Britain's place on the world stage as a result. Defense policy is being decided by the Exchequer, which means cuts and a woefully under-equipped military--for the first time in decades, the Royal Navy has no aircraft carriers-- now such in a sorry state of affairs that Obama has to beg Cameron to reconsider, while the World Service and the Foreign Office budget are being cut.

The Cameron government has excelled in many other ways, but not foreign and defence policy is not one of them-- it's abysmal. What is not abysmal. however, is their approach to the Iran deal.

Oh god, why am I defending not only Cameron but also Hammond who's a weasel of a man but here goes.

The defence cuts started after we blew all our money on Iraq and Afganistan because we literally had to dump millions into getting vehicles t. hat didn't get blown up by IED's. British Foreign Policy was actually saved by the Cold War because we could justify high budgets and live off NATO but our brief flirt with internationalism in the 1990's and 2000's with Blair showed how unpopular and expensive it's been for us.

IIRC we ordered two new carriers in 2009, but we don't have a massive military industrial complex that churns out 10 super carriers. We're a relatively small poor Island that's still paying off our £50 billion bill from Afghanistan.

Cameron's foreign policy is basically a watered down form of Blairism

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yes he is (he's a British Tory after all) but he happens to be right on this issue.

[dead0man]

I think we're missing the point.  This isn't directly about the Iran deal.  This is about the words this man used.  He said we shouldn't worry about what Iran says, we should worry about what they do....the problem with that is fairly obvious to anybody paying attention.  Especially when he follows that up with a "yeah, they do cause a lot of trouble in the region".  And his reasoning for ignoring the terrorism and destabilization is because they're helping in Syria by fighting ISIS, completely ignoring their long term and extensive support of Assad.  Sure, ISIS is worse than Assad, in the same way that eating dirt is better than eating sh**t.

So, again, not about the deal, about the reasoning being stupid.  Of course you'll want to defend it if your reasoning is the same as his....doesn't make it not stupid reasoning.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

But that's the standard FCO view of how the World operates dead0man. It isn't Hammond specific.

[Simfan34]

Al-Assad would not be a problem if he was on "our side".

[politicus]

Al-Assad would not be a problem if he was on "our side".

He is slaughtering his own people, so of course he would.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Al-Assad would not be a problem if he was on "our side".

He is slaughtering his own people, so of course he would.

Although the Bahriani regime doing the same wasn't considered a "problem".

[politicus]

Al-Assad would not be a problem if he was on "our side".

He is slaughtering his own people, so of course he would.

Although the Bahraini regime doing the same wasn't considered a "problem".

There is a clear difference in scale. Assad would be well over the line Western great powers can tolerate in the post-Cold War era.

[politicus]

The defence cuts started after we blew all our money on Iraq and Afganistan

Actually the defence cuts really started after the Cold War ended as the "existential threat" disappeared... although they've been going on progressively since the war.

This is not something I have said. Please do not make fake quotes.

[Silent Hunter]

The defence cuts started after we blew all our money on Iraq and Afganistan

Actually the defence cuts really started after the Cold War ended as the "existential threat" disappeared... although they've been going on progressively since the war.

This is not something I have said. Please do not make fake quotes.

My apologies - bad code on the post.