Jeb: Trump's sister is pro-choice, don't vote for Donald!

[RFayette]

I'm as snobbish and elitist as anyone else, but Jeb graduated PBK. I think he's all right.

People can absolutely be a great student and just be amazingly clueless outside of academia.

True.  Cruz is pretty much a certifiable genius based on what Dr. Alan Dershowitz said about him, but not too many folks are clamoring for him to be President.

The reality is that intelligence is only weakly correlated with skills you want for a Presidency.  Frankly, having a higher intelligence makes it easier for you to mentally justify bad ideological positions (of course, what these are varies depending on your vantage point).

[All Along The Watchtower]

I'm as snobbish and elitist as anyone else, but Jeb graduated PBK. I think he's all right.

The thing you have to pay for? I know I didn't waste that money. Wow, let me pay $100 and get these words on my inevitable Wikipedia page! Jeb is so out of touch. (No offense to anyone on here who did; this is anti-Jeb sentiment)

Seriously amazing he can't translate that Latin American Studies Degree into any Hispanic votes against DONALD TRUMP!

Is that true?  I would have thought of the relatively small percentage of Hispanic Americans who support the Republican Party, that most would support Jeb Bush.

I will say one positive thing about Jeb Bush: at least he doesn't pander to the considerable anti intellectual wing of his party, which was one of defining traits of his brother (who is probably the only anti intellectual candidate to ever win the Republican Party nomination in modern times.)  And even more so, Jeb Bush even basically admits that he considers himself to be a 'wonk' if not an intellectual.

Reagan wasn't very intellectual either, though conservative intellectuals loved him.

[Maxwell]

I'm as snobbish and elitist as anyone else, but Jeb graduated PBK. I think he's all right.

People can absolutely be a great student and just be amazingly clueless outside of academia.

True.  Cruz is pretty much a certifiable genius based on what Dr. Alan Dershowitz said about him, but not too many folks are clamoring for him to be President.

The reality is that intelligence is only weakly correlated with skills you want for a Presidency.  Frankly, having a higher intelligence makes it easier for you to mentally justify bad ideological positions (of course, what these are varies depending on your vantage point).

The difference being that I don't think Cruz is clueless. I think he makes strategic errors now and again, but I think everything he does is very purposeful. He doesn't make gaffes like Jeb Bush does. He does things on purpose. And if Trump fades, best believe me, Cruz will be there for the taking, and he's raised so much money that he can stay in the race as long as he wants.

[dudeabides]

Wow, disgusting of Jeb to attack another candidate's family like that. He needs to drop out and go back to Mexico with his Mexican wife and anchor baby children.

Donald Trump is a vile human being who supports public funding for an organization that harvests the organs of babies for profit.  I'm tired of him ruining this country by trolling everyone and his believing that the federal government should fund Planned Parenthood. There are countless reasons not to support this cockroach, I find it particularly disgusting that he has called himself "very pro-choice." I get that some folks believe that abortion is a woman's right, I don't understand how anyone can ever describe themselves as "very pro-choice." Furthermore, Trump's defense of planned parenthood proves to me he is a purely evil human being who lacks the mental capacity to be President of the United States.

I find it quite sad that there are people seeking to discredit Jeb Bush, or serious candidates like Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, Scott Walker etc. while joke candidates like Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and Hillary Clinton are celebrated. I've had it with the media, and with SOME, but certainly not most voters liking people because of a few things they say without looking at the entire picture. Do Trump supporters teach their kids to be a bunch of bigots and loud-mouths? Do Clinton supporters teach their kids to try and escape the law? Do Santorum supporters teach their kids to be a bunch of homophobes? Do Cruz supporters teach their kids not to work with others? I find it very scary that in a country as rich as ours, there are so many stupid people. The media helps feed this stupidity. When Governor Bush gives policy speeches on foreign policy and budgetary reform, the media basically ignores it. When Ben Carson gets thousands in a room in Arizona, the media ignores it. Carly Fiorina has surged in the polls, the media barely mentions it. Yet, when Donald Trump gives a press conference for the 10000000th time, the media is all there. It's not just the GOP, Bernie Sanders is getting literally thousands to events, the media mentions it in passing without talking about his platform, they then move right back to Trump.

[136or142]

I'm as snobbish and elitist as anyone else, but Jeb graduated PBK. I think he's all right.

The thing you have to pay for? I know I didn't waste that money. Wow, let me pay $100 and get these words on my inevitable Wikipedia page! Jeb is so out of touch. (No offense to anyone on here who did; this is anti-Jeb sentiment)

Seriously amazing he can't translate that Latin American Studies Degree into any Hispanic votes against DONALD TRUMP!

Is that true?  I would have thought of the relatively small percentage of Hispanic Americans who support the Republican Party, that most would support Jeb Bush.

I will say one positive thing about Jeb Bush: at least he doesn't pander to the considerable anti intellectual wing of his party, which was one of defining traits of his brother (who is probably the only anti intellectual candidate to ever win the Republican Party nomination in modern times.)  And even more so, Jeb Bush even basically admits that he considers himself to be a 'wonk' if not an intellectual.

Reagan wasn't very intellectual either, though conservative intellectuals loved him.

Reagan was quite bright, though he wasn't an intellectual. But, I don't believe he pandered to the anti intellectual wing of his party, which was what my point was.  I don't remember it very well, but if anybody in the 1980 Republican Presidential Primary did, it would probably have been Phil Crane.

John Anderson actually was an intellectual.

[Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"]

Where is dudeabides?

He's hanging out with Jeb's pro-choice parents and his pro-choice sister-in-law.

The Bush Family are all, personally, pro-choice; they are "politically" pro-life because of a Faustian bargain Daddy Bush made with the Right in order to get nominated in 1988.

[Torie]

The point of all of this, is what Jeb is doing vis a vis Trump is stupid politically. You don't attack your opponent's family, or go the guilt by association route. It's understandable that Trump would support his sister for family reasons, whatever her views on abortion or anything else, and that is how the voters will see it. What Jeb needs to do is ignore Trump (voters know Trump well at this point, and will make up their own minds when it comes time to vote, and there is not a damn thing the other candidates can do about it other than tend to their own gardens), and just work on projecting himself as a strong, energetic, competent, articulate leader, with a deeper and more penetrating understanding of the issues, and how to deal with them, than the rest of the pack. Jeb at this point at least clearly does not seem to actually have the skill or knowledge or drive or energy or personality to do that. It's fine to postulate that Jeb might be a good POTUS, but discussions here are more about his political skills. What do you think of those skills so far dudeabides?

[dudeabides]

Where is dudeabides?

He's hanging out with Jeb's pro-choice parents and his pro-choice sister-in-law.

The Bush Family are all, personally, pro-choice; they are "politically" pro-life because of a Faustian bargain Daddy Bush made with the Right in order to get nominated in 1988.

First of all, I don't actually care if Donald Trump's sister is pro-choice. I care that he is for public funding of an organization that harvests the organs of babies for profit, he is a purely evil human being with no regard for human life and any pro-life person who supports him isn't really pro-life, Trump is a scumbag who once identified as "very pro-choice." I get that people can change their mind but if he really did, he wouldn't be defending Planned Parenthood.

Secondly, George W. Bush and Jeb Bush are very religious, and very pro-life. Both of them, in their jobs, banned partial-birth abortion and President Bush re-instituted President Reagan's Mexico City Policy. Laura Bush is pro-choice, but the fact of the matter is just because she is doesn't mean her husband is, and she is not a candidate for office. I still think Laura Bush was a great First Lady, she has class and brains, two things Trump's wife will never have.

You like to attack the Bush family, I get that. Whenever there is a famous family of any sort, there are going to be some attacks. In the case of the Bush family, a few of the attacks have merit, most do not. But attacking the Bush's when the candidate you support takes such an extreme pro-choice position is just ridiculous to be quite honest.

[Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"]

Where is dudeabides?

He's hanging out with Jeb's pro-choice parents and his pro-choice sister-in-law.

The Bush Family are all, personally, pro-choice; they are "politically" pro-life because of a Faustian bargain Daddy Bush made with the Right in order to get nominated in 1988.

First of all, I don't actually care if Donald Trump's sister is pro-choice. I care that he is for public funding of an organization that harvests the organs of babies for profit, he is a purely evil human being with no regard for human life and any pro-life person who supports him isn't really pro-life, Trump is a scumbag who once identified as "very pro-choice." I get that people can change their mind but if he really did, he wouldn't be defending Planned Parenthood.

Secondly, George W. Bush and Jeb Bush are very religious, and very pro-life. Both of them, in their jobs, banned partial-birth abortion and President Bush re-instituted President Reagan's Mexico City Policy. Laura Bush is pro-choice, but the fact of the matter is just because she is doesn't mean her husband is, and she is not a candidate for office. I still think Laura Bush was a great First Lady, she has class and brains, two things Trump's wife will never have.

You like to attack the Bush family, I get that. Whenever there is a famous family of any sort, there are going to be some attacks. In the case of the Bush family, a few of the attacks have merit, most do not. But attacking the Bush's when the candidate you support takes such an extreme pro-choice position is just ridiculous to be quite honest.

George H. W. Bush was pro-choice; he switched positions to run for President and he switched back after leaving office.  He did what he had to do to get elected, but he never traded any political capital to advance the pro-life agenda.  He appointed David Souter to the SCOTUS who was favorably disposed to Roe v. Wade, when he could have expended political capital to appoint a more socially conservative jurist.  

W and Jeb, while in office, took the required positions, but never gave up, say, a tax increase, for the sake of advancing the pro-life cause.  Jeb, to his credit, did the right thing on Teri Schiavo (who didn't look dead to me).  Abortion was never a real priority for either of them; wars and tax cuts were.

Here's a question:  Why don't the pro-lifers join forces with the anti-Death Penalty folks to pass a Constitutional Amendment banning both these practices?  Now I get the difference, but it would be a case of giving up something significant in order to gain a greater good.  Of course, that would end the campaign cash, boots on the ground, etc. for the GOP from the "religious Right", so maybe this isn't a coming attraction.

[Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"]

Where is dudeabides?

He's hanging out with Jeb's pro-choice parents and his pro-choice sister-in-law.

The Bush Family are all, personally, pro-choice; they are "politically" pro-life because of a Faustian bargain Daddy Bush made with the Right in order to get nominated in 1988.

First of all, I don't actually care if Donald Trump's sister is pro-choice. I care that he is for public funding of an organization that harvests the organs of babies for profit, he is a purely evil human being with no regard for human life and any pro-life person who supports him isn't really pro-life, Trump is a scumbag who once identified as "very pro-choice." I get that people can change their mind but if he really did, he wouldn't be defending Planned Parenthood.

Secondly, George W. Bush and Jeb Bush are very religious, and very pro-life. Both of them, in their jobs, banned partial-birth abortion and President Bush re-instituted President Reagan's Mexico City Policy. Laura Bush is pro-choice, but the fact of the matter is just because she is doesn't mean her husband is, and she is not a candidate for office. I still think Laura Bush was a great First Lady, she has class and brains, two things Trump's wife will never have.

You like to attack the Bush family, I get that. Whenever there is a famous family of any sort, there are going to be some attacks. In the case of the Bush family, a few of the attacks have merit, most do not. But attacking the Bush's when the candidate you support takes such an extreme pro-choice position is just ridiculous to be quite honest.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/08/28/46908/-Clearing-Up-the-quot-Karla-Faye-Tucker-quot-Episode#

A bit of forgotten history about "The Decider".

Mercy for Cap Weinberger and Scooter Libby.  No regard for mitigating circumstances for Karla Faye Tucker, coupled with ridicule.  Bush Family Character at it's finest.

[dudeabides]

Where is dudeabides?

He's hanging out with Jeb's pro-choice parents and his pro-choice sister-in-law.

The Bush Family are all, personally, pro-choice; they are "politically" pro-life because of a Faustian bargain Daddy Bush made with the Right in order to get nominated in 1988.

First of all, I don't actually care if Donald Trump's sister is pro-choice. I care that he is for public funding of an organization that harvests the organs of babies for profit, he is a purely evil human being with no regard for human life and any pro-life person who supports him isn't really pro-life, Trump is a scumbag who once identified as "very pro-choice." I get that people can change their mind but if he really did, he wouldn't be defending Planned Parenthood.

Secondly, George W. Bush and Jeb Bush are very religious, and very pro-life. Both of them, in their jobs, banned partial-birth abortion and President Bush re-instituted President Reagan's Mexico City Policy. Laura Bush is pro-choice, but the fact of the matter is just because she is doesn't mean her husband is, and she is not a candidate for office. I still think Laura Bush was a great First Lady, she has class and brains, two things Trump's wife will never have.

You like to attack the Bush family, I get that. Whenever there is a famous family of any sort, there are going to be some attacks. In the case of the Bush family, a few of the attacks have merit, most do not. But attacking the Bush's when the candidate you support takes such an extreme pro-choice position is just ridiculous to be quite honest.

George H. W. Bush was pro-choice; he switched positions to run for President and he switched back after leaving office.  He did what he had to do to get elected, but he never traded any political capital to advance the pro-life agenda.  He appointed David Souter to the SCOTUS who was favorably disposed to Roe v. Wade, when he could have expended political capital to appoint a more socially conservative jurist.  

W and Jeb, while in office, took the required positions, but never gave up, say, a tax increase, for the sake of advancing the pro-life cause.  Jeb, to his credit, did the right thing on Teri Schiavo (who didn't look dead to me).  Abortion was never a real priority for either of them; wars and tax cuts were.

Here's a question:  Why don't the pro-lifers join forces with the anti-Death Penalty folks to pass a Constitutional Amendment banning both these practices?  Now I get the difference, but it would be a case of giving up something significant in order to gain a greater good.  Of course, that would end the campaign cash, boots on the ground, etc. for the GOP from the "religious Right", so maybe this isn't a coming attraction.

Not going to argue with you on Bush 41 despite my respect for him.

George W. Bush and Jeb Bush each fought for the pro-life position, politically they didn't have to once they were in office. Also, neither of them raised taxes - Jeb Bush cut taxes $19 billion in Florida, George W. Bush cut taxes by over $1 trillion as President, the largest tax relief in a generation.

I am pro-life, I'm proud to take that position, and I vote for pro-life candidates. But I don't think being opposed to abortion is enough, we must be pro-life for entire lives. George W. Bush protected the American people. You probably believe he was a war monger because of what the media has said, he made the right decisions 99% of the time in my book based on the facts he was presented with, and in most cases proven correct about. Jeb Bush made a difference in education, in reforming medicaid, and in fostering an environment where Florida led the nation in job growth. These two men made their share of mistakes, especially W, but they didn't make decisions based on polls, and based on both their words and actions, I reject the idea either one of them was not genuine. They are both consistent and steadfast, I doubt Donald Trump's motives because he is inconsistent and angry, not because I simply disagree with his policies.

I believe that abortion is wrong, I morally oppose it, and I disagree with John Kasich's ridiculous comment that "Roe V. Wade is the law of the land." I don't think we need a constitutional amendment for protecting life, I think the bill of rights is clear on that topic. As for capital punishment, I think it's a tool we need for the purpose of leverage in prosecutor's offices and for punishing the very worst in our society when the evidence is overwhelming.

What I find fascinating is that the left is okay with aborting babies but wants to keep killers alive. It shows a lack of respect for innocent human life to say the least.

[136or142]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No, they're anti abortion, they're not 'pro life.' Both of them have shown repeatedly the only lives they care about are the 'haves and the have mores.'

I don't care what they're private religious views are, or even what they say they are as opposed to what they may actually be.  I certainly won't attack them for their private religious beliefs, and, in the case of George W Bush, he's said that his religion helped him to overcome challenges he had in life, so good on him for that.  By the same token, I don't think that those who do not have religious views or even believe in God should be attacked.

However, when it comes to how their religious views have shaped their public policy outlook, I think this cartoon more or less sums it up:

[DavidB.]

This thread might be the most hackish one I've ever seen on Atlas.

If Trump has said that he would consider his sister an excellent SCOTUS Justice, then it is obviously news if she's pro-choice. However, strategically, this attack might not be the smartest thing to do for Jeb.

[TJ in Oregon]

Here's a question:  Why don't the pro-lifers join forces with the anti-Death Penalty folks to pass a Constitutional Amendment banning both these practices?  Now I get the difference, but it would be a case of giving up something significant in order to gain a greater good.  Of course, that would end the campaign cash, boots on the ground, etc. for the GOP from the "religious Right", so maybe this isn't a coming attraction.

Because neither one could pass on its own, so grouping them together would just make it go down in flames even worse. The soft pro-life supporters are largely pro-death penalty conservatives and vice versa. That and a constitutional amendment is a very unlikely way of moving any divisive social issue because it requires a supermajority.

[Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"]

Where is dudeabides?

He's hanging out with Jeb's pro-choice parents and his pro-choice sister-in-law.

The Bush Family are all, personally, pro-choice; they are "politically" pro-life because of a Faustian bargain Daddy Bush made with the Right in order to get nominated in 1988.

First of all, I don't actually care if Donald Trump's sister is pro-choice. I care that he is for public funding of an organization that harvests the organs of babies for profit, he is a purely evil human being with no regard for human life and any pro-life person who supports him isn't really pro-life, Trump is a scumbag who once identified as "very pro-choice." I get that people can change their mind but if he really did, he wouldn't be defending Planned Parenthood.

Secondly, George W. Bush and Jeb Bush are very religious, and very pro-life. Both of them, in their jobs, banned partial-birth abortion and President Bush re-instituted President Reagan's Mexico City Policy. Laura Bush is pro-choice, but the fact of the matter is just because she is doesn't mean her husband is, and she is not a candidate for office. I still think Laura Bush was a great First Lady, she has class and brains, two things Trump's wife will never have.

You like to attack the Bush family, I get that. Whenever there is a famous family of any sort, there are going to be some attacks. In the case of the Bush family, a few of the attacks have merit, most do not. But attacking the Bush's when the candidate you support takes such an extreme pro-choice position is just ridiculous to be quite honest.

George H. W. Bush was pro-choice; he switched positions to run for President and he switched back after leaving office.  He did what he had to do to get elected, but he never traded any political capital to advance the pro-life agenda.  He appointed David Souter to the SCOTUS who was favorably disposed to Roe v. Wade, when he could have expended political capital to appoint a more socially conservative jurist.  

W and Jeb, while in office, took the required positions, but never gave up, say, a tax increase, for the sake of advancing the pro-life cause.  Jeb, to his credit, did the right thing on Teri Schiavo (who didn't look dead to me).  Abortion was never a real priority for either of them; wars and tax cuts were.

Here's a question:  Why don't the pro-lifers join forces with the anti-Death Penalty folks to pass a Constitutional Amendment banning both these practices?  Now I get the difference, but it would be a case of giving up something significant in order to gain a greater good.  Of course, that would end the campaign cash, boots on the ground, etc. for the GOP from the "religious Right", so maybe this isn't a coming attraction.

Not going to argue with you on Bush 41 despite my respect for him.

George W. Bush and Jeb Bush each fought for the pro-life position, politically they didn't have to once they were in office. Also, neither of them raised taxes - Jeb Bush cut taxes $19 billion in Florida, George W. Bush cut taxes by over $1 trillion as President, the largest tax relief in a generation.

I am pro-life, I'm proud to take that position, and I vote for pro-life candidates. But I don't think being opposed to abortion is enough, we must be pro-life for entire lives. George W. Bush protected the American people. You probably believe he was a war monger because of what the media has said, he made the right decisions 99% of the time in my book based on the facts he was presented with, and in most cases proven correct about. Jeb Bush made a difference in education, in reforming medicaid, and in fostering an environment where Florida led the nation in job growth. These two men made their share of mistakes, especially W, but they didn't make decisions based on polls, and based on both their words and actions, I reject the idea either one of them was not genuine. They are both consistent and steadfast, I doubt Donald Trump's motives because he is inconsistent and angry, not because I simply disagree with his policies.

I believe that abortion is wrong, I morally oppose it, and I disagree with John Kasich's ridiculous comment that "Roe V. Wade is the law of the land." I don't think we need a constitutional amendment for protecting life, I think the bill of rights is clear on that topic. As for capital punishment, I think it's a tool we need for the purpose of leverage in prosecutor's offices and for punishing the very worst in our society when the evidence is overwhelming.

What I find fascinating is that the left is okay with aborting babies but wants to keep killers alive. It shows a lack of respect for innocent human life to say the least.

I'll agree with the last line of this.

Of course, it amazes me as to how the Henry Hydes and Rick Santorums of the world touted the pro-life banner, advertising their Catholicism, but blew off the Catholic Church on issues of capital punishment and wars.  I mean it's OK if folks want to advocate that combinations of positions, but don't tell me that it's your Catholic faith that motivates you on abortion given the Catholic Church's position on the death penalty and most of our recent foreign war involvements.

[dudeabides]

Where is dudeabides?

He's hanging out with Jeb's pro-choice parents and his pro-choice sister-in-law.

The Bush Family are all, personally, pro-choice; they are "politically" pro-life because of a Faustian bargain Daddy Bush made with the Right in order to get nominated in 1988.

First of all, I don't actually care if Donald Trump's sister is pro-choice. I care that he is for public funding of an organization that harvests the organs of babies for profit, he is a purely evil human being with no regard for human life and any pro-life person who supports him isn't really pro-life, Trump is a scumbag who once identified as "very pro-choice." I get that people can change their mind but if he really did, he wouldn't be defending Planned Parenthood.

Secondly, George W. Bush and Jeb Bush are very religious, and very pro-life. Both of them, in their jobs, banned partial-birth abortion and President Bush re-instituted President Reagan's Mexico City Policy. Laura Bush is pro-choice, but the fact of the matter is just because she is doesn't mean her husband is, and she is not a candidate for office. I still think Laura Bush was a great First Lady, she has class and brains, two things Trump's wife will never have.

You like to attack the Bush family, I get that. Whenever there is a famous family of any sort, there are going to be some attacks. In the case of the Bush family, a few of the attacks have merit, most do not. But attacking the Bush's when the candidate you support takes such an extreme pro-choice position is just ridiculous to be quite honest.

George H. W. Bush was pro-choice; he switched positions to run for President and he switched back after leaving office.  He did what he had to do to get elected, but he never traded any political capital to advance the pro-life agenda.  He appointed David Souter to the SCOTUS who was favorably disposed to Roe v. Wade, when he could have expended political capital to appoint a more socially conservative jurist.  

W and Jeb, while in office, took the required positions, but never gave up, say, a tax increase, for the sake of advancing the pro-life cause.  Jeb, to his credit, did the right thing on Teri Schiavo (who didn't look dead to me).  Abortion was never a real priority for either of them; wars and tax cuts were.

Here's a question:  Why don't the pro-lifers join forces with the anti-Death Penalty folks to pass a Constitutional Amendment banning both these practices?  Now I get the difference, but it would be a case of giving up something significant in order to gain a greater good.  Of course, that would end the campaign cash, boots on the ground, etc. for the GOP from the "religious Right", so maybe this isn't a coming attraction.

Not going to argue with you on Bush 41 despite my respect for him.

George W. Bush and Jeb Bush each fought for the pro-life position, politically they didn't have to once they were in office. Also, neither of them raised taxes - Jeb Bush cut taxes $19 billion in Florida, George W. Bush cut taxes by over $1 trillion as President, the largest tax relief in a generation.

I am pro-life, I'm proud to take that position, and I vote for pro-life candidates. But I don't think being opposed to abortion is enough, we must be pro-life for entire lives. George W. Bush protected the American people. You probably believe he was a war monger because of what the media has said, he made the right decisions 99% of the time in my book based on the facts he was presented with, and in most cases proven correct about. Jeb Bush made a difference in education, in reforming medicaid, and in fostering an environment where Florida led the nation in job growth. These two men made their share of mistakes, especially W, but they didn't make decisions based on polls, and based on both their words and actions, I reject the idea either one of them was not genuine. They are both consistent and steadfast, I doubt Donald Trump's motives because he is inconsistent and angry, not because I simply disagree with his policies.

I believe that abortion is wrong, I morally oppose it, and I disagree with John Kasich's ridiculous comment that "Roe V. Wade is the law of the land." I don't think we need a constitutional amendment for protecting life, I think the bill of rights is clear on that topic. As for capital punishment, I think it's a tool we need for the purpose of leverage in prosecutor's offices and for punishing the very worst in our society when the evidence is overwhelming.

What I find fascinating is that the left is okay with aborting babies but wants to keep killers alive. It shows a lack of respect for innocent human life to say the least.

I'll agree with the last line of this.

Of course, it amazes me as to how the Henry Hydes and Rick Santorums of the world touted the pro-life banner, advertising their Catholicism, but blew off the Catholic Church on issues of capital punishment and wars.  I mean it's OK if folks want to advocate that combinations of positions, but don't tell me that it's your Catholic faith that motivates you on abortion given the Catholic Church's position on the death penalty and most of our recent foreign war involvements.

In my opinion, the question of abortion is more moral than it is public policy. Therefore, one must examine their own conscious, their own value system, and their faith as to if they are pro-life or pro-choice. Obviously, one will advance their belief either way in the public policy arena. I am morally opposed to abortion except for cases of rape, incest, of when the mother's health is at risk - my conscious and value system helped me reach this conclusion, my faith teaches me the mother's life comes first, and my faith teaches me to value human life.

I believe foreign policy is equally about morals as it is public policy. You, I, and the folks on this forum are taught that war is hell and should be avoided, we are also taught that we must be compassionate to our fellow man. The goal for our government has to be to promote our values, but also the public policy goal of protecting our homeland. I believe when making decisions about foreign policy, our leaders should always be welcomed to look to their faith for guidance and should always ask themselves if what they are doing is right, but they must also answer the question of if what they are doing will make us safer.

Capital punishment, in my mind, is a grey area. As a matter of faith, you are right, the catholic church opposes capital punishment as do some other faiths. But, as a matter of public policy, having capital punishment gives prosecutor's leverage towards confessions, it also is supposed to be a form of revenge and a deterrent. Personally, I support having capital punishment as an option for prosecutors, but that is a matter of public policy because my faith teaches forgiveness. But while my faith is part of who I am and I recognize faith helps guide people, it doesn't drive people in full necessarily.

[Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"]

Where is dudeabides?

He's hanging out with Jeb's pro-choice parents and his pro-choice sister-in-law.

The Bush Family are all, personally, pro-choice; they are "politically" pro-life because of a Faustian bargain Daddy Bush made with the Right in order to get nominated in 1988.

First of all, I don't actually care if Donald Trump's sister is pro-choice. I care that he is for public funding of an organization that harvests the organs of babies for profit, he is a purely evil human being with no regard for human life and any pro-life person who supports him isn't really pro-life, Trump is a scumbag who once identified as "very pro-choice." I get that people can change their mind but if he really did, he wouldn't be defending Planned Parenthood.

Secondly, George W. Bush and Jeb Bush are very religious, and very pro-life. Both of them, in their jobs, banned partial-birth abortion and President Bush re-instituted President Reagan's Mexico City Policy. Laura Bush is pro-choice, but the fact of the matter is just because she is doesn't mean her husband is, and she is not a candidate for office. I still think Laura Bush was a great First Lady, she has class and brains, two things Trump's wife will never have.

You like to attack the Bush family, I get that. Whenever there is a famous family of any sort, there are going to be some attacks. In the case of the Bush family, a few of the attacks have merit, most do not. But attacking the Bush's when the candidate you support takes such an extreme pro-choice position is just ridiculous to be quite honest.

George H. W. Bush was pro-choice; he switched positions to run for President and he switched back after leaving office.  He did what he had to do to get elected, but he never traded any political capital to advance the pro-life agenda.  He appointed David Souter to the SCOTUS who was favorably disposed to Roe v. Wade, when he could have expended political capital to appoint a more socially conservative jurist.  

W and Jeb, while in office, took the required positions, but never gave up, say, a tax increase, for the sake of advancing the pro-life cause.  Jeb, to his credit, did the right thing on Teri Schiavo (who didn't look dead to me).  Abortion was never a real priority for either of them; wars and tax cuts were.

Here's a question:  Why don't the pro-lifers join forces with the anti-Death Penalty folks to pass a Constitutional Amendment banning both these practices?  Now I get the difference, but it would be a case of giving up something significant in order to gain a greater good.  Of course, that would end the campaign cash, boots on the ground, etc. for the GOP from the "religious Right", so maybe this isn't a coming attraction.

Not going to argue with you on Bush 41 despite my respect for him.

George W. Bush and Jeb Bush each fought for the pro-life position, politically they didn't have to once they were in office. Also, neither of them raised taxes - Jeb Bush cut taxes $19 billion in Florida, George W. Bush cut taxes by over $1 trillion as President, the largest tax relief in a generation.

I am pro-life, I'm proud to take that position, and I vote for pro-life candidates. But I don't think being opposed to abortion is enough, we must be pro-life for entire lives. George W. Bush protected the American people. You probably believe he was a war monger because of what the media has said, he made the right decisions 99% of the time in my book based on the facts he was presented with, and in most cases proven correct about. Jeb Bush made a difference in education, in reforming medicaid, and in fostering an environment where Florida led the nation in job growth. These two men made their share of mistakes, especially W, but they didn't make decisions based on polls, and based on both their words and actions, I reject the idea either one of them was not genuine. They are both consistent and steadfast, I doubt Donald Trump's motives because he is inconsistent and angry, not because I simply disagree with his policies.

I believe that abortion is wrong, I morally oppose it, and I disagree with John Kasich's ridiculous comment that "Roe V. Wade is the law of the land." I don't think we need a constitutional amendment for protecting life, I think the bill of rights is clear on that topic. As for capital punishment, I think it's a tool we need for the purpose of leverage in prosecutor's offices and for punishing the very worst in our society when the evidence is overwhelming.

What I find fascinating is that the left is okay with aborting babies but wants to keep killers alive. It shows a lack of respect for innocent human life to say the least.

I'll agree with the last line of this.

Of course, it amazes me as to how the Henry Hydes and Rick Santorums of the world touted the pro-life banner, advertising their Catholicism, but blew off the Catholic Church on issues of capital punishment and wars.  I mean it's OK if folks want to advocate that combinations of positions, but don't tell me that it's your Catholic faith that motivates you on abortion given the Catholic Church's position on the death penalty and most of our recent foreign war involvements.

In my opinion, the question of abortion is more moral than it is public policy. Therefore, one must examine their own conscious, their own value system, and their faith as to if they are pro-life or pro-choice. Obviously, one will advance their belief either way in the public policy arena. I am morally opposed to abortion except for cases of rape, incest, of when the mother's health is at risk - my conscious and value system helped me reach this conclusion, my faith teaches me the mother's life comes first, and my faith teaches me to value human life.

I believe foreign policy is equally about morals as it is public policy. You, I, and the folks on this forum are taught that war is hell and should be avoided, we are also taught that we must be compassionate to our fellow man. The goal for our government has to be to promote our values, but also the public policy goal of protecting our homeland. I believe when making decisions about foreign policy, our leaders should always be welcomed to look to their faith for guidance and should always ask themselves if what they are doing is right, but they must also answer the question of if what they are doing will make us safer.

Capital punishment, in my mind, is a grey area. As a matter of faith, you are right, the catholic church opposes capital punishment as do some other faiths. But, as a matter of public policy, having capital punishment gives prosecutor's leverage towards confessions, it also is supposed to be a form of revenge and a deterrent. Personally, I support having capital punishment as an option for prosecutors, but that is a matter of public policy because my faith teaches forgiveness. But while my faith is part of who I am and I recognize faith helps guide people, it doesn't drive people in full necessarily.

If the moral issue of the HUMANITY OF THE CHILD isn't a factor, then what MORAL issue is involved?  I believe that the unborn child is a human life.  If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't care about what medical options people chose. 

[moderatevoter]

Aren't most of the Bush women pro-choice too?

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

Aren't most of the Bush women pro-choice too?

Laura and Barbara Bush are both pro-choice.

[dudeabides]

Where is dudeabides?

He's hanging out with Jeb's pro-choice parents and his pro-choice sister-in-law.

The Bush Family are all, personally, pro-choice; they are "politically" pro-life because of a Faustian bargain Daddy Bush made with the Right in order to get nominated in 1988.

First of all, I don't actually care if Donald Trump's sister is pro-choice. I care that he is for public funding of an organization that harvests the organs of babies for profit, he is a purely evil human being with no regard for human life and any pro-life person who supports him isn't really pro-life, Trump is a scumbag who once identified as "very pro-choice." I get that people can change their mind but if he really did, he wouldn't be defending Planned Parenthood.

Secondly, George W. Bush and Jeb Bush are very religious, and very pro-life. Both of them, in their jobs, banned partial-birth abortion and President Bush re-instituted President Reagan's Mexico City Policy. Laura Bush is pro-choice, but the fact of the matter is just because she is doesn't mean her husband is, and she is not a candidate for office. I still think Laura Bush was a great First Lady, she has class and brains, two things Trump's wife will never have.

You like to attack the Bush family, I get that. Whenever there is a famous family of any sort, there are going to be some attacks. In the case of the Bush family, a few of the attacks have merit, most do not. But attacking the Bush's when the candidate you support takes such an extreme pro-choice position is just ridiculous to be quite honest.

George H. W. Bush was pro-choice; he switched positions to run for President and he switched back after leaving office.  He did what he had to do to get elected, but he never traded any political capital to advance the pro-life agenda.  He appointed David Souter to the SCOTUS who was favorably disposed to Roe v. Wade, when he could have expended political capital to appoint a more socially conservative jurist.  

W and Jeb, while in office, took the required positions, but never gave up, say, a tax increase, for the sake of advancing the pro-life cause.  Jeb, to his credit, did the right thing on Teri Schiavo (who didn't look dead to me).  Abortion was never a real priority for either of them; wars and tax cuts were.

Here's a question:  Why don't the pro-lifers join forces with the anti-Death Penalty folks to pass a Constitutional Amendment banning both these practices?  Now I get the difference, but it would be a case of giving up something significant in order to gain a greater good.  Of course, that would end the campaign cash, boots on the ground, etc. for the GOP from the "religious Right", so maybe this isn't a coming attraction.

Not going to argue with you on Bush 41 despite my respect for him.

George W. Bush and Jeb Bush each fought for the pro-life position, politically they didn't have to once they were in office. Also, neither of them raised taxes - Jeb Bush cut taxes $19 billion in Florida, George W. Bush cut taxes by over $1 trillion as President, the largest tax relief in a generation.

I am pro-life, I'm proud to take that position, and I vote for pro-life candidates. But I don't think being opposed to abortion is enough, we must be pro-life for entire lives. George W. Bush protected the American people. You probably believe he was a war monger because of what the media has said, he made the right decisions 99% of the time in my book based on the facts he was presented with, and in most cases proven correct about. Jeb Bush made a difference in education, in reforming medicaid, and in fostering an environment where Florida led the nation in job growth. These two men made their share of mistakes, especially W, but they didn't make decisions based on polls, and based on both their words and actions, I reject the idea either one of them was not genuine. They are both consistent and steadfast, I doubt Donald Trump's motives because he is inconsistent and angry, not because I simply disagree with his policies.

I believe that abortion is wrong, I morally oppose it, and I disagree with John Kasich's ridiculous comment that "Roe V. Wade is the law of the land." I don't think we need a constitutional amendment for protecting life, I think the bill of rights is clear on that topic. As for capital punishment, I think it's a tool we need for the purpose of leverage in prosecutor's offices and for punishing the very worst in our society when the evidence is overwhelming.

What I find fascinating is that the left is okay with aborting babies but wants to keep killers alive. It shows a lack of respect for innocent human life to say the least.

I'll agree with the last line of this.

Of course, it amazes me as to how the Henry Hydes and Rick Santorums of the world touted the pro-life banner, advertising their Catholicism, but blew off the Catholic Church on issues of capital punishment and wars.  I mean it's OK if folks want to advocate that combinations of positions, but don't tell me that it's your Catholic faith that motivates you on abortion given the Catholic Church's position on the death penalty and most of our recent foreign war involvements.

In my opinion, the question of abortion is more moral than it is public policy. Therefore, one must examine their own conscious, their own value system, and their faith as to if they are pro-life or pro-choice. Obviously, one will advance their belief either way in the public policy arena. I am morally opposed to abortion except for cases of rape, incest, of when the mother's health is at risk - my conscious and value system helped me reach this conclusion, my faith teaches me the mother's life comes first, and my faith teaches me to value human life.

I believe foreign policy is equally about morals as it is public policy. You, I, and the folks on this forum are taught that war is hell and should be avoided, we are also taught that we must be compassionate to our fellow man. The goal for our government has to be to promote our values, but also the public policy goal of protecting our homeland. I believe when making decisions about foreign policy, our leaders should always be welcomed to look to their faith for guidance and should always ask themselves if what they are doing is right, but they must also answer the question of if what they are doing will make us safer.

Capital punishment, in my mind, is a grey area. As a matter of faith, you are right, the catholic church opposes capital punishment as do some other faiths. But, as a matter of public policy, having capital punishment gives prosecutor's leverage towards confessions, it also is supposed to be a form of revenge and a deterrent. Personally, I support having capital punishment as an option for prosecutors, but that is a matter of public policy because my faith teaches forgiveness. But while my faith is part of who I am and I recognize faith helps guide people, it doesn't drive people in full necessarily.

If the moral issue of the HUMANITY OF THE CHILD isn't a factor, then what MORAL issue is involved?  I believe that the unborn child is a human life.  If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't care about what medical options people chose. 

I am pro-life as well, I understand this.

Aren't most of the Bush women pro-choice too?

So?

[All Along The Watchtower]

Aren't most of the Bush women pro-choice too?

The Bush women aren't Republican politicians though.