Bring Back British Rail?

[Silent Hunter]

Spinning off a discussion from the Labour leadership thread.

Would you support a renationalisation of the UK's railway network or not?

I'm going to start this topic by saying that while BR did many good things, it did many bad things as well and we're still dealing with some of them.

[afleitch]

As a nationalised entity? No. As a combined franchise put out to tender with a government stake in it? Perhaps.

[DavidB.]

As a nationalised entity? No. As a combined franchise put out to tender with a government stake in it? Perhaps.

No, that's an extremely bad idea. I'm generally a huge supporter of privatization, but I'm sceptical about it when it comes to the railways, and the model you describe is even worse: we have this in the Netherlands. It doesn't work and it's too expensive. It leads to "privatizing the profits and socializing the losses", of which the 11-billion-euros debacle with the Netherlands' high-speed trains is only the latest example. Even worse, the government decided (in the early 00s, I think) to split the maintenance of the rails and the actual train services in two "companies" (both largely owned by the government), which leads to extreme miscommunication and both "companies" blaming each other when something goes wrong. The deals between the government and the main railway company have been characterized by signs of rampant fraud and corruption, which is bizarre, given that this is the Netherlands, a country where one wouldn't expect this. In short: absolutely no citizen will benefit from fake privatization just for the sake of fake privatization.

Given the fact that British train tickets are the most expensive in Europe and given that nothing seems to be changing (well, except for the prices, which go up), I wouldn't even be against a renationalization of the railways (even though admittedly, I don't know much of British Railways' failures in the past). However, private stakeholders and investors need to be payed for that.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Of course, public utilities such as railways and energy production should be publicly owned and managed.

[PJ]

Yes, and I would support nationalization of railways and other public utilities in my home country as well.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Important thing to note here is that the railways themselves are back in public hands: it turns out that when railway maintenance is done for profit the interests of shareholders are placed above that of basic safety procedures and people die, who'd have thunk it. Happily there was no compensation because the Blair government denied it was strictly speaking a nationalisation even though it absolutely was. Stephen Byers = secret trot.

As for the trains, people are currently being taken for a ride by the train companies in more ways than the one they pay (too much) for. I don't see why this is an acceptable state of affairs, even if sorting it out will not be easy for various reasons. So I'm in favour of some form of nationalisation.

Still, I'd rather not bring back BR. It was kind of sucky.

[Blair]

I take the moderate hero stance.

The general view from people like Owen Jones is that East Coast was great under public hands, we already give them money and we get fleeced so we should just nationalise it all at once to solve the problem. There's also some EU law against it

I don't think it's that simple, there was a BBC 2 program on tonight at 10 for are UK viewers about the railways-basically British Rail was awful. I honestly don't know what I support with it, as DavidB said I remember reading that in Germany the state has the hard job of dealing with public rail, whilst private sector just sticks to freight. Either way I honestly don't think there's a solid golden answer

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The trouble with BR was underinvestment and neglect which largely stemmed from the then view in Whitehall that rail was a relic of another age. This view is no longer fashionable.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Whoever owns it should reverse the damage of Beeching ASAP.

[Silent Hunter]

Whoever owns it should reverse the damage of Beeching ASAP.

In some cases that's being done; there's the Border Railway about to open in Scotland, the Varsity Line project is getting serious traction and George Osborne is amenable to a second mainline from London to Brighton.

In other cases, like the Great Central Railway, there's been too much redevelopment for easy restoration.

[Simfan34]

Even worse, the government decided (in the early 00s, I think) to split the maintenance of the rails and the actual train services in two "companies" (both largely owned by the government), which leads to extreme miscommunication and both "companies" blaming each other when something goes wrong.

I believe this is required by EU mandate, unfortunately.

I've said elsewhere that I think reconsolidation is probably a good idea, and my opinion hasn't changed.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Of course I support public ownership of public transit.

[Phony Moderate]

As long as their sandwiches are of better quality.

[Clyde1998]

I would like to see a nationalised rail network. I would think that it would bring rail prices down, as well as improving the network as a whole. However, I don't see anything happening in the short to medium term.

[Simfan34]

Here's an interesting documentary for those with the time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmblcN-SwmY

[Intell]

Of course, public utilities such as railways and energy production should be publicly owned and managed.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Here's an interesting documentary for those with the time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmblcN-SwmY

Omg not four minutes and they're forcing Margaret to take the First Great Western line RIP Margaret, that line is probably the bane of my existence. Truly a disasterous line, I've never been on it without it breaking down (although I may be unlucky).

[Silent Hunter]

Well, it's no longer called that... it's now the Great Western Railway. Last time I used it, I was going to Cardiff and got delayed on both journeys.