Is Obama a Muslim?

[Why]

If a Christian politician says their religious beliefs will not have an impact on their decision making they are not telling the truth. They are either lying or seriously deluded.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

No, but I actually do believe he is a secret agnostic. Not that matters or affects my opinion of him.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

No, but he is someone who hates western civilization and disdains American Exceptionalism.

He is Rigoberta Menchu

For a Stormfront bot, this is pretty intelligent. Usually, this racist garbage would be followed by a claim about Obama being Jacob Zuma or Mugabe. A somewhat obscure Guatemalan activist? That's pure Atlas racism.

[Badger]

Of course not. Don't be silly.

[Slander and/or Libel]

No. He's not much of a Christian either though.

This is sort of where I come down on the issue.  I'll take his profession of faith as enough to consider him a brother in Christ, but, in all honesty, I don't know of an instance where his Christian faith would trump (Oooh, I said "trump", lower case!) his political ideology, or, at least, the issue positions he is required to hold to be in good standing with the Democratic Party Establishment.

What if his own reading of Christian teaching informs his politics, and it happens to be different from yours?

[user12345]

Isn't it sad that we even care what religion our President is?

Not really? I'd want to know if my head of state had been a member of Heaven's Gate.

And you think Trump is?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

No. He's not much of a Christian either though.

This is sort of where I come down on the issue.  I'll take his profession of faith as enough to consider him a brother in Christ, but, in all honesty, I don't know of an instance where his Christian faith would trump (Oooh, I said "trump", lower case!) his political ideology, or, at least, the issue positions he is required to hold to be in good standing with the Democratic Party Establishment.

What if his own reading of Christian teaching informs his politics, and it happens to be different from yours?

No reading of Christian teaching says killing is good, but that's exactly what Obama is doing when he advocates for abortion. No Christian, including myself, follows the bible to the letter. All of us reject some part of it. But when you advocate breaking the 10 commandments and criticize those who advocate for not breaking them, as Obama does with abortion, then you cross that red line into not being a real christian.

[Slander and/or Libel]

That's an insane thing to say, that the abortion debate can only jive with Christianity in the specific way that you say. There are many Christians who consider themselves pro-choice. You're trying to make the argument that all of them are by definition basically lying?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

That's an insane thing to say, that the abortion debate can only jive with Christianity in the specific way that you say. There are many Christians who consider themselves pro-choice. You're trying to make the argument that all of them are by definition basically lying?

They can call themselves a Christian, but I don't consider them to be one. Even demons are capable of merely believing in god. Real christians follow his word. Now, if your position is along the lines of "I support allowing abortion because people need to realize how bad it is on their own.", that's okay. But when you say that those who criticize abortion are indecent, anti-woman individuals as Obama does, then I refuse to buy into this lie of you being a Christian, because no true Christian would effectively say that breaking the 10 commandments is an ok thing.

[Slander and/or Libel]

That's an insane thing to say, that the abortion debate can only jive with Christianity in the specific way that you say. There are many Christians who consider themselves pro-choice. You're trying to make the argument that all of them are by definition basically lying?

They can call themselves a Christian, but I don't consider them to be one. Even demons are capable of merely believing in god. Real christians follow his word. Now, if your position is along the lines of "I support allowing abortion because people need to realize how bad it is on their own.", that's okay. But when you say that those who criticize abortion are indecent, anti-woman individuals as Obama does, then I refuse to buy into this lie of you being a Christian, because no true Christian would effectively say that breaking the 10 commandments is an ok thing.

You realize that there is a diversity of opinion on this, right? That other people don't see it as breaking the 10 commandments? I understand that you don't, and I suppose that's fine, but being anti-abortion is not a litmus test for being a Christian. It may be a litmus test for being your particular brand of Christian, but that's it.

Do you view opposition to SSM as another such litmus test?

[TarHeelDem]

No Christian would infringe on the free will of another human being.

We can do this for all time, Wulfric.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

That's an insane thing to say, that the abortion debate can only jive with Christianity in the specific way that you say. There are many Christians who consider themselves pro-choice. You're trying to make the argument that all of them are by definition basically lying?

They can call themselves a Christian, but I don't consider them to be one. Even demons are capable of merely believing in god. Real christians follow his word. Now, if your position is along the lines of "I support allowing abortion because people need to realize how bad it is on their own.", that's okay. But when you say that those who criticize abortion are indecent, anti-woman individuals as Obama does, then I refuse to buy into this lie of you being a Christian, because no true Christian would effectively say that breaking the 10 commandments is an ok thing.

You realize that there is a diversity of opinion on this, right? That other people don't see it as breaking the 10 commandments? I understand that you don't, and I suppose that's fine, but being anti-abortion is not a litmus test for being a Christian. It may be a litmus test for being your particular brand of Christian, but that's it.

Do you view opposition to SSM as another such litmus test?

No. I don't. The interpretation of the bible used to get to that point is ridiculous in my view, but I can agree to disagree there. But the 10 commandments are the most important commands that God has ever issued. They are meant to withstand any and all tests of time You can't just casually wave them away. The condemnation of homosexuality, that's outside of the 10 commandments. But not having an abortion sits right there with the prohibition on stealing and believing in idols. No interpretation of the bible can allow you to wave it away and still be a good christian.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Thou shalt not have an abortion is not one of the ten commandments.

[Mr. Reactionary]

He is a muslim, and also an atheist ... and he attended a radical Christian Church ... and he's a Jew


He's also a Communist Socialist Marxist Fascist Liberal Poo Poo Head.


Contradictions be damned!

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Thou shalt not have an abortion is not one of the ten commandments.

Abortion = killing. The commandments prohibit killing.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Thou shalt not have an abortion is not one of the ten commandments.

Abortion = killing. The commandments prohibit killing.

Exodus 21:22-23:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That's one chapter after the Ten Commandments, Jack.

[jimrtex]

Here's what I never got about the birther thing: Let's say Obama was born in Kenya instead of Hawaii. He'd still be a US citizen and eligible for the Presidency by virtue of his mother being an American citizen (a la Cruz or George Romney), so what's the big deal?

His mother had not lived in the United States for 5 years after the age of 14.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Here's what I never got about the birther thing: Let's say Obama was born in Kenya instead of Hawaii. He'd still be a US citizen and eligible for the Presidency by virtue of his mother being an American citizen (a la Cruz or George Romney), so what's the big deal?

His mother had not lived in the United States for 5 years after the age of 14.

Though again, he was born in Hawaii, so this talk matters exactly not at all.

[jimrtex]

Here's what I never got about the birther thing: Let's say Obama was born in Kenya instead of Hawaii. He'd still be a US citizen and eligible for the Presidency by virtue of his mother being an American citizen (a la Cruz or George Romney), so what's the big deal?

His mother had not lived in the United States for 5 years after the age of 14.

Though again, he was born in Hawaii, so this talk matters exactly not at all.

Realisticidealist had posed a hypothetical situation.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Thou shalt not have an abortion is not one of the ten commandments.

Abortion = killing. The commandments prohibit killing.

Exodus 21:22-23:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That's one chapter after the Ten Commandments, Jack.

That simply reinforces the 10 commandments. Abortion is killing, and the 10 commandments say "Thou shalt not kill".

[Slander and/or Libel]

So the punishment prescribed for this is the same as the punishment prescribed for murder?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

So the punishment prescribed for this is the same as the punishment prescribed for murder?

I'd convict the doctor performing the abortion of 2nd degree murder, and the mother  of assisting another in committing murder. I'd assign the usual punishment under current us laws for both crimes.

[Slander and/or Libel]

I'm not talking about what you'd do. I know that. I'm talking about what the Bible says. What's the Old Testament punishment for murder? What's the Old Testament punishment for killing an unborn child? (Hint: I already posted that one)

[Torie]

So the punishment prescribed for this is the same as the punishment prescribed for murder?

I'd convict the doctor performing the abortion of 2nd degree murder, and the mother  of assisting another in committing murder. I'd assign the usual punishment under current us laws for both crimes.

Perhaps you and Figs can start a thread on the Debate board about abortion (or maybe the Religion board). It is totally off topic here. And the debate will go nowhere, because all of these abortion debates are based on a priori assumptions of just how "human" a fetus is and when, thereby entitling a fetus to a varying spectrum of "rights" based on those assumptions, but have at it - there. Thanks.

[Slander and/or Libel]

I wouldn't say it's totally off topic, as it originated from a discussion of Obama's religion (the topic of the thread), and Wulfric's insistence that his own criteria define whether or not Obama can self-identify as his own preferred religion.

But it certainly has gone down a rabbit hole, and I'll take the opportunity to pull out now.