Opinion of Third Wave Feminism

[tik 🪀✨]

Schadenfreude knows what women really want.

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The point is that people be free to break these norms when it suits them, and that the expectation/pressure to fulfill them in the traditional ways only be eliminated. The blurring of gender identity and gender roles isn't something everyone must do as much as it something everyone must accommodate. The emphasis is placed on relaxing expectations and allowing people to be who they are with the hope that this will benefit individuals and society. What women and men are like and what they want and what being a man or woman means to themselves or society, on average, probably won't shift. And that's really quite okay - the point is, in one way, to relax the rigid social structures because their foundations are objectively artificial and potentially harmful to those of us who don't quite fit. I would hope that this isn't an extreme point of view.

In any case "But all the women I know want X" is a silly way to form an opinion.

There is a lot of terrifying garbage that has seeped out of the fringes of third wave feminist thought and that's all that people notice. I am not sympathetic to a lot of it but I'd still rather live in a world where these ideas were being debated than in one where they weren't.

[tik 🪀✨]

In any case "But all the women I know want X" is a silly way to form an opinion.

Nice strawman.  Who said "all" women?  Is there such a poverty of facts and ideas that you have to resort to such tactics

Yes.

The point is that people be free to break these norms when it suits them, and that the expectation/pressure to fulfill them in the traditional ways only be eliminated.

No one said people aren't free to do what they want.  As far as pressure is concerned what are you going to do legislate what parents tell their kids about marriage?  Mandate parents hide the fact dad makes more than mom?  Arrest mom for saying she is happy being a house wife or only working part time at the law firm?

I don't think it's necessary to just rephrase things I wrote originally in the post. You could have just empty quoted me instead of regurgitating that I believe we should arrest mom.

My problem with some areas of femenist thought is there is this pervasive underlying feeling that in a perfect world where women are treated the same as men at school and in the work place that companies with be 50/50 male and female in all positions and the women will be really happy with that state of affairs... as opposed to the current situation.  As with my example of the Netherlands what the world looks like as you approach utopia isn't necessarily a perfect 50/50 split in the work place and a lot of women are fine with that.

I also think your deliberate misunderstanding of feminism is terrible.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11118738/Stay-at-home-mothers-have-the-most-worthwhile-lives.html

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http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/the-feminismhappiness-axis/

That's great, it kind of reminds me of something I remember from earlier...

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Anyway!

Reminds me of Palestine and Egypt.  Americans demanded they have free and democratic elections.  Then Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood were swept into power.  Now the same Americans are decrying the election results.  Newsflash when people in other cultures are free to determine how to structure their society they won't necessarily conform to the fantasy in your American head.

femenism is head democracy for teh ladies

Anyway like I said I can't wait for an American feminist who can't go to Planned Parenthood, get proper maternity leave, get an almost free college degree, doesn't have a proper social safety net for her and her children go to the Netherlands and explain to Dutch women how they need to be more progressive... like the US.

How.. specific of you.

[tik 🪀✨]

Anyway, I have some objections to what 'third wave feminism' is generally used to mean--'sex-positive', strongly liberal/individualistic, endlessly finicky about its preferred language games, et cetera--but although my own views, at least in terms of my instincts and what I naturally gravitate towards, would probably strike a lot of people as 'first wave' throwbacks, I do think that there are also points worth celebrating in more recent feminism, like the somewhat more trenchant (if sometimes embarrassingly overcorrecting) discussion of race and the fact that femininity as a concept isn't as much of a bête noire as it used to be. I agree with Beatrice's point that the whole 'waves' model is basically a hash.

Ignoring that the "waves" concept is artificial for the moment, what exactly is it in your views that points towards "first wave" feminism and how does that contrast with what came afterwards? Is there some overall incompatibility or is it just a different emphasis on certain ideas and/or a rejection of later goals?