Pope Francis Could Face Conservative Revolt Within the Vatican
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  Pope Francis Could Face Conservative Revolt Within the Vatican
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Author Topic: Pope Francis Could Face Conservative Revolt Within the Vatican  (Read 1221 times)
Frodo
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« on: September 07, 2015, 08:13:47 PM »

A conservative revolt is brewing inside the Vatican

By Anthony Faiola
September 7 at 7:33 PM


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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 10:47:44 PM »
« Edited: September 07, 2015, 10:49:46 PM by Αλληλεγγύη »

The only thing they can do to stop him is have him killed. I surely hope his security is taking all appropriate measures.
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Nathan
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 11:28:21 PM »

This honestly frightens me.
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Chunk Yogurt for President!
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2015, 12:34:39 PM »

Does this mean there might be two Popes again?
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RI
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2015, 12:51:31 PM »

lol. What "liberal" changes to doctrine has he actually made to inspire such revolt? Hint: there aren't any. All of this is hypothetical concern trolling.
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afleitch
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2015, 01:09:25 PM »

lol. What "liberal" changes to doctrine has he actually made to inspire such revolt? Hint: there aren't any. All of this is hypothetical concern trolling.

Exactly. All Francis has done is posture. He just has to stop and he'll be fine.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2015, 07:24:25 PM »

lol. What "liberal" changes to doctrine has he actually made to inspire such revolt? Hint: there aren't any. All of this is hypothetical concern trolling.

Indeed. This all seems greatly exaggerated, much like the talk of liberal schism with other Popes.
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BRTD
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2015, 09:55:27 AM »

lol. What "liberal" changes to doctrine has he actually made to inspire such revolt? Hint: there aren't any. All of this is hypothetical concern trolling.

Indeed. This all seems greatly exaggerated, much like the talk of liberal schism with other Popes.

There has been a liberal schism going on for decades though.
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Nathan
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2015, 02:39:03 PM »

lol. What "liberal" changes to doctrine has he actually made to inspire such revolt? Hint: there aren't any. All of this is hypothetical concern trolling.

Indeed. This all seems greatly exaggerated, much like the talk of liberal schism with other Popes.

There has been a liberal schism going on for decades though.

Large-scale conversion from one existing religion to others is not the same thing as schism.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2015, 11:35:30 PM »

lol. What "liberal" changes to doctrine has he actually made to inspire such revolt? Hint: there aren't any. All of this is hypothetical concern trolling.

Indeed. This all seems greatly exaggerated, much like the talk of liberal schism with other Popes.

There has been a liberal schism going on for decades though.

Large-scale conversion from one existing religion to others is not the same thing as schism.

BRTD is right though in that there has been a schism (behind closed doors) within the Church for decades whether people have formally left or not. Poll after poll of Catholics about the Church's teachings reveal such.

Also, if you want to only count those who are formally divided, one could quite clearly say that there has been a liberal schism going on for the last 498 years.

To the point of the article, there are definitely some dark clouds rolling across the horizon within the Church. Some of the drama is exaggerated of course. For instance, Cardinal Burke's comments here (which are obvious still dramatic) are less dramatic when placed in context. The 'ship without a rudder' comment wasn't him saying the Church is a ship without a rudder; he was saying people think it's a ship without a rudder. The more recent stuff suggestive of a schism was in answer to a question he was asked about what would happen if the pope tried to change settled doctrines. He was not suggesting the Pope will.

On a more realistic note, the upcoming Ordinary Synod will likely be somewhat messy. The main divisive issue will be communion for people who are divorced and remarried, as promulgated by Cardinal Kasper and company, and reputed by practically everyone outside of Europe. Eventually Pope Francis may have to give a clear and definitive answer to this question, which he has gone out of his way to avoid doing for some time now. I think it is clear Pope Francis believes in gradualism and prefers to answer only to the individual he is talking to rather than issue definitive decrees. It may also be the case that Pope Francis intended his annulment reform to take that discussion off the table, as it would serve almost the same purpose without the required theological gymnastics.

Still, much to the dismay of the American left, if you take a good long look at the folks on the left side of this alleged 'schism' within the hierarchy (and I would be willing to bet a lot there won't be a major one), virtually all of the bishops mentioned here hold numerous views that would be considered completely unacceptable to American social liberalism. Bear in mind just where the overton window is here.
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BRTD
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2015, 09:01:48 PM »

Also let me say that even under the narrowest definition of "schism" liberal schism has happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Catholic_Church
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church

Also for something close to home, this church is where I voted in 2008 and 2010: http://www.spiritofststephens.org

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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2015, 09:47:37 PM »

Has the Spirit of St. Stephens considered becoming affiliated with the Old Catholic Church (aka Union of Utrecht)?
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BRTD
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2015, 10:56:34 PM »

I get the impression they have no interest in being part of a larger group. Based on the story around the split it'd be akin to if Atlas After Dark decided to go be part of a larger network of forums even if it had less restrictive rules than Atlas. Incidentally the St. Stephen's Church they split from (the only Roman Catholic church in the neighborhood) is both: 1-Pretty close to 100% Hispanic now as far as I can tell and 2-The only place in the neighborhood with "Vote Yes" signs on the marriage amendment in 2012 up.

Also I should clarify, when I voted there the church was actually First Christian Church of the Disciples of Christ, but they moved before 2012. At the time Spirit of St. Stephen's also met in the same building, but once First Christian moved out they took over the building fully. Meaning there is now a "St. Stephen's Catholic Church" and "Spirit of St. Stephen's Catholic Church" about three blocks apart.
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