The Northeast Gazette Presents: A Debate on Northeastern Independence

[DemPGH]

This is a somewhat inconvenient time for your dear moderator. As mentioned on the Regional Governments board, I will be away this coming week, but nonetheless I think we can get a jump on this and I hope to have some Internet time. If not, I trust the participants here to explore the issue in an informative, civil manner.

The timetable right now is:

1. Opening statements by Gov. Pikachu and Assemblyman Clyde1998, the respective leaders of the No and Yes campaigns on Northeastern independence.
(72 hrs.)

2. A time for the two participants to ask questions of one another and to respond in kind.
(72 hrs. minimum, flexible beyond that based upon interest and activity)

3. A time for clarification questions and/or questions from the floor. (Should I not be available for this, I will try to appoint someone)
(Time is flexible)

There is much at stake here, so good luck to both sides!

[pikachu]

Guess I'll be starting this off...

First, I'd like to thank my Lieutenant Governor for moderating this debate.

Second, I'd like to preemptively thank my opponent, Assemblyman Clyde, for so far running a civil and positive campaign so far. This has been a time of increased negativity in Atlasia, so he's been a breath of fresh air in our public discourse.

To put it simply, I believe that the Northeast is better off in its current situation in Atlasia than it would be as an independent state. Now, to be clear, that does not mean I support the status quo of our region and our country. I do think that the next Constitutional Convention should provide for stronger powers for the regions, and I have voted for a devolution resolution in my past. I strongly hope that delegates to the ConCon realize there is a significant contingent of people who want this.

However, I do not believe that there is any particularly compelling reason to be independent. We are already quite well represented federally in Atlasia (check the list of recent federal officeholders from the Northeast I posted in the NFUA thread). Even with our not particularly high amount of powers and enormous statute, we've still managed to have an active region with competitive elections. Our regional economy is on the stronger side of Atlasia, and will almost definitely be stronger in Atlasia than out of it. Of course, there are many more reasons why I believe we're better off inside, but I'll save those for later in the debate. I look forward to a civil and reasoned discussion.

[Clyde1998]

Firstly, I would like to thank Representative DemPGH for arranging a debate and the Governor for agreeing to take part in one.

In the next few days, the people of the Northeast will be asked the most important question in Atlasian history: whether or not the Northeast should become independent from Atlasia. Never before have the people been trusted to decide an issue so important, and they possibly never will be again.

The Northeast is a vibrant region, and capable of sustaining an active, independent country within our universe alongside the Republic of Atlasia. It's not really a question of whether the Northeast could be independent, it's a question of whether the Northeast should be independent.

As many people will have noticed, activity in the game (as a whole) as fallen drastically in the last few months and I feel that Northeastern independence will generate a change that the game needs - something new, that's not brought about by hostility. I'm glad that this has been a, mostly, trouble free campaign so far and may it continue.

A new independent country in this universe will allow for a more realistic foreign policy - especially when compared to what we've had for the previous decade or so.

If the Northeast becomes independent, we will continue to operate with the Atlasian Government to in the interest of both countries - however, it will allow for a much faster and, in some cases, a more appropriate response from the independent Northeast Senate to issues that may arise.

Independence will spark a new lease of life into the game - which could lead to an increase of activity across the board.

The Northeast is ready - it's time to take the step towards independence.

[DemPGH]

Just checking in guys, thanks!

Clyde: Sounds like you might be describing something that would work like a dukedom? In other words, the N.E. would have very increased powers but would remain loosely tied to Atlasia. How would a military or armed forces work? Sorry if I missed that, I'm reading quickly. (I see you mentioned foreign policy). In other words, where should N.E. powers stop and Atlasia powers start if we're to be independent?

Pikachu: Would you accept fewer regions (like 2 or 3) if it meant increasing the powers that they have, and do you think that would be the answer to Atlasia's doldrums? I guess, then, if we're talking about increasing regional powers, where do we stop under your proposal and where do Atlasia's powers start? (Same Q I asked Clyde). 

Also, if you guys want to address each other now, that's fine.

Also, one other person asked me about jumping in with a question or two, and that's fine with me. if anyone else would like to jump in, shoot me a PM. I just want to keep it orderly. I'll try to get back on tomorrow.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

If the people of Northeast decide to purse the route of independence, then a Dominion model would be interesting, at least for the start.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=218448.0

[Clyde1998]

Clyde: Sounds like you might be describing something that would work like a dukedom? In other words, the N.E. would have very increased powers but would remain loosely tied to Atlasia. How would a military or armed forces work? Sorry if I missed that, I'm reading quickly. (I see you mentioned foreign policy). In other words, where should N.E. powers stop and Atlasia powers start if we're to be independent?

Atlasia would have no technical control over the Northeast, if we became independent, however we would continue to co-operate on issues such as trade (in a similar way to the Atlasia-Canadian Common Market) to ensure that the citizens of both places are unaffected by the technical changes that would occur following independence.

Probably the only, constitutional, overlap between the countries would be a shared Game Moderator, to ensure that both countries remain in the same universe and the same events occur at the same time. However, issues like unemployment would be reported on by someone in the Northeastern Government.

In terms of defence, we would look at having strong naval and air units - giving our position in the North Atlantic - to ensure security. Our army should be large enough to take part in peace keeping missions and defend the country, but we wouldn't be able to take part in full scale invasions of other countries.

We would want to see NATO membership put to a referendum, but we would seek to participate in the Membership Action Plan before hand, where we would contribute to NATO in certain missions.

Finally, following independence a request will be made to the Atlasian Government to remove any Weapons of Mass Destruction from the Northeast - allowing Atlasia to remain in control of them.

[pikachu]

Pikachu: Would you accept fewer regions (like 2 or 3) if it meant increasing the powers that they have, and do you think that would be the answer to Atlasia's doldrums? I guess, then, if we're talking about increasing regional powers, where do we stop under your proposal and where do Atlasia's powers start? (Same Q I asked Clyde). 

My apologies for the delay, I've been a bit busy irl.

I've been a proponent of consolidation recently, and have come around to the view that it's necessary that we have 3 regions. Of course, this would likely involve territorial changes to the Northeast, but I feel that it's necessary if this game wants to have multiple functional regions, and even in the one particularly functional region (us), we still have issues filling all of our offices. Personally, I'd like us to have more power when it comes to taxes, trade, and regulation, among other things, while relying on the federal government for things like defense, central banking, foreign policy, etc. I do think that a fleshed out devolution proposal is best left for the ConCon.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

As the Pope, I highly support the freedom of the Northeast to be our own independent theocratic monarchy republic.

[Clyde1998]

Pikachu - If more exclusive powers to the Northeast is a good thing, why would all powers a bad thing?

[Clyde1998]

*Bump*

Pikachu - If more exclusive powers to the Northeast is a good thing, why would all powers a bad thing?

[pikachu]

Sorry for the late response- it's move-in week, so I haven't had the time to write something particularly substantial until now.

I don't think that we need all the powers because the federal government provides the Northeast several things that help us and our economy. The federal government built the interstates which allow for us to get our food and goods from the rest of Atlasia. The federal government gave us a lot of assistance in the building of a high speed rail system, an enormous undertaking which would've been tough for us to do by ourself. The federal government is responsible for a lot of the welfare that our people receive. The federal government provides for our defense and safety, especially considering that we do have some very high risk terrorist targets which are icons of Western civilization. Ultimately, the federal government, when working functionally, does a lot of good for us, and hopefully, when it functions well again, will continue to do a lot of good for us.

[pikachu]

I guess more questions wouldn't be bad, right?

So to Clyde, how do you plan to keep officeholders satisfied with a setup of just 7 officeholders, considering that almost every Assemblyperson who has served during our time in Atlasia has attempted to run for federal office at some point or another?