Bernie Sanders claims America founded on 'Racist Principles'

[The Free North]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-to-liberty-u-america-was-founded-on-racist-principles/


In a very narrow sense, yes of course, just like every other country in the world at the time, the US prevented all peoples from expressing themselves democratically and while the institution of slavery was protested, it was not outlawed.

That being said, it is incredibly naive and narrow-minded to hold the founding fathers to a higher standard that places them outside of the 18th century. The US constitution and its founding documents established and enshrined liberal principles that gave its citizens unparalleled rights at the time. Of course it was not perfect, but the wording of constitution was the basis upon which slavery was eventually outlawed and equality under the law restored to the nation.


I would have expected more from Sanders to be honest.

[DrScholl]

While that is true to some extent, there are better ways to phrase it.

[Pyro]

Well, yeah, it's a very clear point. The US was founded by old white slaveowners who didn't want to pay taxes. The power was purposefully kept in the hands of an elite few: property-holding Anglo males. Every gain by PoC afterwards occured through incessant struggle. What exactly Sanders hopes to gain from pointing out whitewashed history is unclear.

[user12345]

Well he isn't wrong.

[Lief 🗽]

He's correct, but this is not something you say if you want to win a general election.

[Suburbia]

He's correct, but this is not something you say if you want to win a general election.

When Savage, Beck hears this, it's not going to be good for Sanders.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Western leftists love to parade Switzerland?

[bagelman]

I am now less willing to support Sanders

[Marokai Backbeat]

Sanders is just pushing the SJW agenda.

It is an objectively true statement.

[Bigby]

Sanders should be reminded that if wants to extend his base beyond white liberal academics, then he should be very careful with how he phrases facts and opinions.

[DrScholl]

It's all about the phrasing. The founding principles were not racist, but there were plenty of racist attitudes around at that time. What he should have said was that the country has evolved greatly in fully implementing the principles of fairness outlined in the constitution.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

America was founded on the principles of liberty by people who didn't apply those principles equally.  And many of the founding fathers wanted to get rid of slavery anyway.  Vermont, Massachusetss and Pennsylvania IIRC had already become free states by the time the Constitution was signed.

[Adam Griffin]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-to-liberty-u-america-was-founded-on-racist-principles/


In a very narrow sense, yes of course, just like every other country in the world at the time, the US prevented all peoples from expressing themselves democratically and while the institution of slavery was protested, it was not outlawed.

That being said, it is incredibly naive and narrow-minded to hold the founding fathers to a higher standard that places them outside of the 18th century. The US constitution and its founding documents established and enshrined liberal principles that gave its citizens unparalleled rights at the time. Of course it was not perfect, but the wording of constitution was the basis upon which slavery was eventually outlawed and equality under the law restored to the nation.


I would have expected more from Sanders to be honest.

I didn't realize he was running to be President of every country in the world?

If you actually listened to the full exchange/original question, then you would know that it was a response to "what would you do to combat racism?". Obviously to discuss where we are currently, one must talk about from where we came. Therefore, understanding the current situation involves addressing the fact that we were "founded on racist principles".

And let's be real here: y'all saying that "I don't know if I'm going to support Sanders now" were never actually going to end up casting a vote for him before this (with the exception of you White National Socialists, perhaps - show of hands?). If you can't bear to hear within relevant contexts about our racist past without getting your panties in a wad, then you know what I'm going to say.

[Pyro]

Well, yeah, it's a very clear point. The US was founded by old white slaveowners who didn't want to pay taxes. The power was purposefully kept in the hands of an elite few: property-holding Anglo males. Every gain by PoC afterwards occured through incessant struggle. What exactly Sanders hopes to gain from pointing out whitewashed history is unclear.

1. The Dutch, the richest group in the US at the time, were not Anglo Saxons.
2. The founders were not particularly old, many were in their 30s or 40s.
3. The US was one of the first major countries in the world that expanded voting to non taxpayers and property holders, and kept it that way, unlike France.
4. "People of color" is a misleading term for a time period where many races did not even live within US borders.
5. Virtually your entire post is could be applied to: (list)
basically any other Western country leftists love to parade.

Nice try, son. Ice up, you'll trick some naive people eventually. For now, you've been ignored. I'm sure I ain't the first. 

Dutch were the wealthiest but there were more Brits with money at the time, more than half of the founders were 40+, and the rest of what I stated you haven't countered, so I'm not sure what you're working at except to berate me? Voting laws only change when there's active movements to do so, and just with everything, it took time and effort to fight against the inclusive system set by the founders (Only 6% of the pop could vote in 1788-9, thus limiting it to property owners: majority of whom were white male Protestants). There's more to discuss here past voting rights, but you get the idea.

You are a silly person and I'm not quite sure why you're here if you ignore people you disagree with.

[Mehmentum]

We're never going to get anywhere by judging countries and people of the past by today's standards.  Its like dissing Newton for not figuring out relativity 200 years early.  Nearly every country 300 years ago was as bad or worse than the US.

I mean, we obviously shouldn't be taking their every word as gospel.  However that doesn't mean we shouldn't respect them for laying the groundwork for this country.  These people were visionaries for their time.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Naw, no racism there.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

It was the founding principles of this nation that inspired the abolitionists in the 18th and 19th century and the Civil Rights protesters in the 20th century.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Adam Griffin]

It was the founding principles of this nation that inspired the abolitionists in the 18th and 19th century and the Civil Rights protesters in the 20th century.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No, it was groups of people being fycking fed-up with the status quo that inspired them. Enough with the Constitution fetishization already. Those same sentiments existed before said document and will exist long after it as well, for it is universal.

[Figueira]

He's absolutely right. This makes me like Sanders more.

Sanders is just pushing the SJW agenda. Sooner or later we'll be hearing about "Cultural appropriation" and "ableism". Maybe not from him, but that's where the left is going.

Why do people object to the term "ableism"?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

It was the founding principles of this nation that inspired the abolitionists in the 18th and 19th century and the Civil Rights protesters in the 20th century.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No, it was groups of people being fycking fed-up with the status quo that inspired them. Enough with the Constitution fetishization already. Those same sentiments existed before said document and will exist long after it as well, for it is universal.

I'm not sure how you could deny that those words inspired people to change the status quo.

[Cory]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Naw, no racism there.

Well, to be fair, otherwise the Southern States would be able to inflate their influence by counting slaves as "persons" in the context of drawing Congressional districts. Not having the three-fifths compromise would have strengthened the hand of the slave holding elites.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

That wasn't even the Constitution that was the Declaration of Independence.

What better place to find the founding principles of our country than the document in which we declared that we are a new nation?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Naw, no racism there.

Well, to be fair, otherwise the Southern States would be able to inflate their influence by counting slaves as "persons" in the context of drawing Congressional districts. Not having the three-fifths compromise would have strengthened the hand of the slave holding elites.

But the constitution is condoning slavery there.

[Cory]

But the constitution is condoning slavery there.

But what were they supposed to do? Just let the Southern States count their slaves and get free House seats?

Don't get me wrong America had a lot of racism in it's founding but the Three-Fifths Compromise if often cited as evidence of this, when the reality is more complicated.

[Abraham Reagan]

 America was founded of the principals of limited government, freedom of expression, and the right of self determination. Now obviously, these principles were not equally applied to all people for a long period, but that does not make the principles themselves racist. In fact, if you want to know the greatest force preventing greater equality for blacks, look at the Democratic Party.

 From the very beginning of American nationhood, abolitionism was a powerful force. Many of the founders, like Benjamin Franklin, Benjamin Rush, and John Jay thought slavery was a violation of the rights of man and helped to create the first abolitionist societies. Abolition of slavery was passed in PA, MA, CT, RI, NH, VT, AND NY before the beginning of the 19th century, and President Washington signed an act prohibiting slavery in the the then territories of OH, IN, IL, MI, WI, IA.

 Abraham Lincoln understood the founders' situation when he said "just as an afflicted man hides away a wen or a cancer, which he dares not cut out at once, lest he bleed to death; with the promise, nevertheless, that the cutting may begin at the end of a given time." He understood that if the founders' tried to declare an immediate end to all slavery, the new nation would be torn apart. Nevertheless, the founders set forth a system by which the abolition of slavery would eventually be assured.