Constitutional Convention - Commentary thread.

[Senator Cris]

Today, the most senior Senator (PiT) will open the thread for the signing-in of the delegates.
In the next days, the people will elect 15 delegates. The Senate will select another 5 delegates from the parties that registered with the SoFE. With the 5 Senators selected by the Senate itself (the vote will close today), there will be 25 delegates.

[tmthforu94]

So independents are being shut out, once again?

[Senator Cris]

So independents are being shut out, once again?

Absolutely not.
15 delegates (60% of total) will be elected by the regions and all people (including independents) had time to declare their candidacy.

There are many people (including you) that declared candidacy after the deadline, so I'm not sure you'll be included in the ballot.

[tmthforu94]

So independents are being shut out, once again?

Absolutely not.
15 delegates (60% of total) will be elected by the regions and all people (including independents) had time to declare their candidacy.

There are many people (including you) that declared candidacy after the deadline, so I'm not sure you'll be included in the ballot.

Who came up with the idea of giving Senate the ability to pick almost half of the members? Oh wait, let me guess: Senate.

[Oakvale]

So independents are being shut out, once again?

Absolutely not.
15 delegates (60% of total) will be elected by the regions and all people (including independents) had time to declare their candidacy.

There are many people (including you) that declared candidacy after the deadline, so I'm not sure you'll be included in the ballot.

Who came up with the idea of giving Senate the ability to pick almost half of the members? Oh wait, let me guess: Senate.

This is the worst Senate in Atlasian history, Tmth. Nothing surprising. They're also currently trying to illegally and unconstitutionally usurp the President's power after the fact.

[Lincoln Republican]

Here's a novel idea.

How about more input from, oh, I don't know, maybe from THE PEOPLE!

Pass an AMENDMENT in the Senate increasing the number of delegates from 25 to 31, so there will be 10 from the Senate, 21 from THE PEOPLE, so THE PEOPLE have more input.

Four of the 21 delegates elected by the people are to be independents.

Duh!

[tmthforu94]

Here's a novel idea.

How about more input from, oh, I don't know, maybe from THE PEOPLE!

Pass an AMENDMENT in the Senate increasing the number of delegates from 25 to 31, so there will be 10 from the Senate, 21 from THE PEOPLE, so THE PEOPLE have more input.

Four of the 21 delegates elected by the people are to be independents.

Duh!

Won't 2/3s be required to pass anything? That should have been the ratio, not 60/40. Now the Senate can block something if they don't like it. And they get to select which partisan members get into there? Sounds like cronyism to me!

[Classic Conservative]

Here's a novel idea.

How about more input from, oh, I don't know, maybe from THE PEOPLE!

Pass an AMENDMENT in the Senate increasing the number of delegates from 25 to 31, so there will be 10 from the Senate, 21 from THE PEOPLE, so THE PEOPLE have more input.

Four of the 21 delegates elected by the people are to be independents.

Duh!

Theres a thing with an Admendment the ConCon has already started its too late.

[Lincoln Republican]

Here's a novel idea.

How about more input from, oh, I don't know, maybe from THE PEOPLE!

Pass an AMENDMENT in the Senate increasing the number of delegates from 25 to 31, so there will be 10 from the Senate, 21 from THE PEOPLE, so THE PEOPLE have more input.

Four of the 21 delegates elected by the people are to be independents.

Duh!

Won't 2/3s be required to pass anything? That should have been the ratio, not 60/40. Now the Senate can block something if they don't like it. And they get to select which partisan members get into there? Sounds like cronyism to me!

Cronyism is good term to describe these events.

Perhaps the first resolution to be passed at the Con Con should be that the Senate must represent the best interests of the people of Atlasia, not their own.  

[Lincoln Republican]

Here's a novel idea.

How about more input from, oh, I don't know, maybe from THE PEOPLE!

Pass an AMENDMENT in the Senate increasing the number of delegates from 25 to 31, so there will be 10 from the Senate, 21 from THE PEOPLE, so THE PEOPLE have more input.

Four of the 21 delegates elected by the people are to be independents.

Duh!

Theres a thing with an Admendment the ConCon has already started its too late.

It is NEVER too late for DEMOCRACY my friend!

[Senator Cris]

Here's a novel idea.

How about more input from, oh, I don't know, maybe from THE PEOPLE!

Pass an AMENDMENT in the Senate increasing the number of delegates from 25 to 31, so there will be 10 from the Senate, 21 from THE PEOPLE, so THE PEOPLE have more input.

Four of the 21 delegates elected by the people are to be independents.

Duh!

Won't 2/3s be required to pass anything? That should have been the ratio, not 60/40. Now the Senate can block something if they don't like it. And they get to select which partisan members get into there? Sounds like cronyism to me!

No, it requires 3/5.
The Senate inserted the partisan selection only because the electorate was more balanced toward a party than the registered voters numbers.
Also... the Senate already selected their 5 delegates and considered that the partisan delegates will not be Senators ( they might be, but it's unlikely)... the Senate will be represented 5/25, that's only 20%.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Here's a novel idea.

How about more input from, oh, I don't know, maybe from THE PEOPLE!

Pass an AMENDMENT in the Senate increasing the number of delegates from 25 to 31, so there will be 10 from the Senate, 21 from THE PEOPLE, so THE PEOPLE have more input.

Four of the 21 delegates elected by the people are to be independents.

Duh!

Won't 2/3s be required to pass anything? That should have been the ratio, not 60/40. Now the Senate can block something if they don't like it. And they get to select which partisan members get into there? Sounds like cronyism to me!

No, it requires 3/5.
The Senate inserted the partisan selection only because the electorate was more balanced toward a party than the registered voters numbers.

this is such bad logic. if you have a group of people that is unbalanced politically (let's say, for example, seven right-wingers, two left-wingers and a centrist) the best way to balance that group is by adding people unbalanced in the opposite way (7-1-2 + 0-7-5 = 7-8-7), not by adding a balanced group of people (7-1-2 + 4-4-4 = 11-5-6)

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the senate is choosing them unilaterally, is the point.

[Senator Cris]

^ Still better than random selection.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Can everybody just calm down for a minute? Seriously, nobody is trying to set themselves up as dictator and nobody is being robbed of representation.

FACT: 60% of the delegates will be chosen directly by the people (as opposed to by the Regional governments or by some random selection process as Evergreen proposed).

FACT: There is no rule preventing non-delegates from making suggestions and lobbying the delegates.

FACT: 100% of Atlasians will be able to vote on whatever the Con-Con comes up with, and 4/5 of the Regions have to vote yes for it to go into effect.

When Classic Conservative started the Con-Con petition, many said that a Con-Con would inevitably fail because Atlasians could never agree on large scale reforms. I said they were wrong at the time; but here we are, arguing over a selection process that most likely will not effect the composition of the convention.

And contrary to what seems to be the dominant opinion here, the Senate is not some power-hungry cabal of evil-doers scheming to get its way. Having the Senate select some of the delegates was intended to make the selection process go more quickly, nothing more. Please stop blowing this out of proportion.

[Leinad]

Yeah, it's funny how some people (Simfan, Bore) were going on about how long elections would take, but now you've got people thinking the Senate is some group of power-hungry maniacs who will shut down any sensible reform (because obviously the Senate thinks and acts as one unit).

[ilikeverin]

you are holding a FORTY-EIGHT HOUR ELECTION FOR CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION DELEGATES AFTER GIVING VIRTUALLY NO NOTICE ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF A DELEGATE SELECTION PROCESS

I CAN'T EVEN WITH YOU PEOPLE

THIS MAKES ME FEEL SO ALLCAPS, GUYS.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.

[Senator Cris]

you are holding a FORTY-EIGHT HOUR ELECTION FOR CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION DELEGATES AFTER GIVING VIRTUALLY NO NOTICE ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF A DELEGATE SELECTION PROCESS

I CAN'T EVEN WITH YOU PEOPLE

THIS MAKES ME FEEL SO ALLCAPS, GUYS.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.

That's not true. I created this thread on September 17.
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=219317.0

[ilikeverin]

you are holding a FORTY-EIGHT HOUR ELECTION FOR CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION DELEGATES AFTER GIVING VIRTUALLY NO NOTICE ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF A DELEGATE SELECTION PROCESS

I CAN'T EVEN WITH YOU PEOPLE

THIS MAKES ME FEEL SO ALLCAPS, GUYS.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.

That's not true. I created this thread on September 17.
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=219317.0

Ah.  Excellent.  4 days notice.  I feel much better that our Senate overlords kindly allowed us a single solitary weekend to contemplate this idea and debate the issues and a generous 48 hours to vote for the candidates of their our choosing.  YOU WILL REGRET THIS.

[Senator Cris]

you are holding a FORTY-EIGHT HOUR ELECTION FOR CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION DELEGATES AFTER GIVING VIRTUALLY NO NOTICE ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF A DELEGATE SELECTION PROCESS

I CAN'T EVEN WITH YOU PEOPLE

THIS MAKES ME FEEL SO ALLCAPS, GUYS.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.  YOU ARE PATHETIC.

That's not true. I created this thread on September 17.
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=219317.0

Ah.  Excellent.  4 days notice.  I feel much better that our Senate overlords kindly allowed us a single solitary weekend to contemplate this idea and debate the issues and a generous 48 hours to vote for the candidates of their our choosing.  YOU WILL REGRET THIS.

If you didn't check the thread and declared your candidacy, I'm sorry but it's not our fault.
And let me say, I'm a bit tired of criticisms on all things.

[Senator Cris]

I'd like to keep this thread as an informative and commentary thread.

[Talleyrand]

Why are the NNP and independent delegates going to be selected by the Senate? There are no independent or NNP Senators in the chamber, so that is highly undemocratic. I would encourage the Senate to allow the party to select their delegate and then confirm that individual. The Senate has already decided 5 delegates from their own ranks; why should they get to decide another 5 when those appointments are supposedly reserved for the parties?

[Marokai Backbeat]

I agree with ilikeverin that this has all been horribly managed so far to say the least.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     We may have been a little excited to get on with this.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

To Talleyrand's concern: if NNP has a particular candidate in mind for delegate, I would be more than happy to defer to the party's judgement and nominate/support that person in the Senate.

[Leinad]

Proposal to elect delegates? OHMYGOD THIS IS TAKING SOOOO LONG THIS IS THE WORST SENATE IN HISTORY!!!!11!!!1!

Proposal to have some of the delegates appointed? OHMYGOD THIS IS SOOOO UNDEMOCRATIC THIS IS THE WORST SENATE IN HISTORY!!!!1!1!!!1!!!!11!!

Proposal to have some of the delegates chosen by the parties themselves? OHMYGOD THIS IS SOOOO PARTISAN THIS IS THE WORST SENATE IN HISTORY!!!!!11!!11!!!!!

Proposal to have party-based delegates chosen, instead, by the senate? OHMYGOD THIS IS SOOOO UNDEMOCRATIC THIS IS THE WORST SENATE IN HISTORY!!!!!1!!!1!!!

My point: I think people just want to complain. Cris, Truman, and the rest of the Senate have done a fine job with the convention so far. It's hard to please everyone, especially when a frighteningly large faction have no interest in seeing the game succeed and just want to discourage the only functioning part of the federal government.

Just calm down everyone. Deep cleansing breaths.