Constitutional Convention - Commentary thread.

[Leinad]

As far as I can tell, the Convention delegates will look something like this:

(Those that are simply guesses based on current votes in italics.)

PiT
Truman
Kalwejt
RPryor
Lumine
Winfield
Oakvale
RGN
Pikachu or Clyde (it's neck and neck)
EarlAW
NeverAgain
VivaPortugalHabs
Windjammer
Marokai Blue
Cris
Classic Conservative
Simfan
Adam Griffin
North Carolina Yankee
Leinad
[Reserved-"Conservative"]
[Reserved-"Conservative"]
[Reserved-"Progressive"]
[Reserved-"Progressive"]
[Reserved-"Centrist"]

This isn't an exact science (JCL might be in...I'm guessing on tiebreakers...) but it should be close.

Any names that should be on that list but aren't, Senators? Those last 5 spots are up to you to decide.

[Clyde1998]

To Talleyrand's concern: if NNP has a particular candidate in mind for delegate, I would be more than happy to defer to the party's judgement and nominate/support that person in the Senate.

I'll wait for the close of the 'public vote' before suggesting an NNP candidate, but I will suggest one.

[Leinad]

So, the voting's over, right? It's been over 48 hours since it was opened, and Homely said exactly 48 hours.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

So, the voting's over, right? It's been over 48 hours since it was opened, and Homely said exactly 48 hours.

northeast: oakvale, winfield, rgn, clyde
mideast: jcl, windjammer, neveragain, vivaportugalhabs
southeast: leinad, nc yankee, griffin
midwest: cris, marokai
pacific: simfan, classic conservative

[Adam Griffin]

Should've stuck to my original idea instead of watering down ideological representation to 1/5 of the delegates - roughly 2/3 of the delegation are conservatives*. This is not going to be an ideologically-balanced convention.

*Cannot confirm these are the actual elected officials because we have no idea who is and who is not a registered voter in the election

[Leinad]

I think that ideology as in conservative/liberal/libertarian/moderate/socialist/etc. is less important than ideology as far as the game is concerned.

For example, I agree with ChairmanSanchez on more issues than with you, Adam, yet I disagree with his dissolutionist stance on Atlasia, but I like lots of your game reform ideas. And those are the things that matter more here. Tax policy, abortion, gay marriage, drug policy, gun control--none of those things matter in the Constitutional Convention.

Do you get what I'm saying? My point, to reiterate, is that one of the things everyone's been going on about is kind of irrelevant (sorry).

[Adam Griffin]

I think that ideology as in conservative/liberal/libertarian/moderate/socialist/etc. is less important than ideology as far as the game is concerned.

For example, I agree with ChairmanSanchez on more issues than with you, Adam, yet I disagree with his dissolutionist stance on Atlasia, but I like lots of your game reform ideas. And those are the things that matter more here. Tax policy, abortion, gay marriage, drug policy, gun control--none of those things matter in the Constitutional Convention.

Do you get what I'm saying? My point, to reiterate, is that one of the things everyone's been going on about is kind of irrelevant (sorry).

I have personally said that this presidential election should be - above all else - about proper game reform. In fact, I believe that primarily to be the only major issue.

However, within the halls of the constitutional convention, basic ideological balance is necessary. By and large, everyone in the ConCon agrees on the premise that the game must be saved and reformed (only a couple of trolls managed to sneak into it). The broader fights we will face (like the trolls who tried unsuccessfully to destabilize the game by attacking me) will come from outside such a group and after the fact.

Because there will be fundamental disagreements and arguments over specific game proposals within the ConCon that are rooted in ideology, I highly believe that the ConCon needs to resemble the voting bloc as much as possible. If the result from the ConCon is balanced along these lines, then an entire set of potential arguments against it will not exist. At that point and once again, we'll only have to face the blind obstruction and troll behavior like I forecasted in my opening presidential campaign statement.

If, however, the result of the ConCon is significantly out-of-step with the electorate who must inevitably accept/reject it, then it will unfortunately fail.

[Leinad]

I totally agree--my argument is that conventional definitions of ideology in real-world terms (libertarian, conservative, liberal, moderate, socialist, etc.) is about as important as what people's favorite ice cream flavor is.

In other words, it should be balanced by ideology, but the issues aren't traditional ones such as economics or social matters, but issues as far as the game is concerned, so looking at conventional ideological terms does us no good to balance it by ideology, because that isn't the "ideology" that is important here.

I think that makes sense...

[Adam Griffin]

I totally agree--my argument is that conventional definitions of ideology in real-world terms (libertarian, conservative, liberal, moderate, socialist, etc.) is about as important as what people's favorite ice cream flavor is.

In other words, it should be balanced by ideology, but the issues aren't traditional ones such as economics or social matters, but issues as far as the game is concerned, so looking at conventional ideological terms does us no good to balance it by ideology, because that isn't the "ideology" that is important here.

I think that makes sense...

Well, if you had been around when the debate over whether to reform the game or not occurred two years ago, then you'd understand that the fundamental reactions based on what to do (or whether to do anything at all) were based in basic ideological viewpoints (predominantly, conservativism and regionalism with regards to obstructing reform, and the lack of concern for regionalism with regards to enacting reform). In addition, there were deep and obvious roots of partisanship involved in the process as well.   

[tmthforu94]

I will be contesting the results.

[Senator Cris]

We have just to wait the certification of results by the SoFE.
Then the Senate will select 5 delegates.

[Lincoln Republican]

I still do not agree, nor will I ever agree, that the Senate should be picking 10 out of the 25 delegates.

I KNOW it cannot be changed now, but that is still my view.

The Senate should only have been picking 5 out of the 25 delegates.

The Senate has really cut back on allowing the people to choose in something as fundamental as a Constitutional Convention.

This is a travesty as far as I'm concerned.  

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I still do not agree, nor will I ever agree, that the Senate should be picking 10 out of the 25 delegates.

I KNOW it cannot be changed now, but that is still my view.

The Senate should only have been picking 5 out of the 25 delegates.

0 really

[Leinad]

The Senate should only have been picking 5 out of the 25 delegates.

Should've stuck to my original idea instead of watering down ideological representation to 1/5 of the delegates

Voting on delegates would simply bog things down. Have the Senate select 10 delegates and the regions select 2 each, with a President of the Convention serving as a tie-breaker.

One thing's obviously true: it's impossible to get everyone to agree on something. There will always be some--if not most--people dissenting.

Having the Senate choose 5 Senators and 5 extra by ideology seems like a good compromise. It's probably not what I'd choose (I'm not convinced that the ideological/partisan picks are a good idea, although lots of people liked it so I decided it wasn't a hill to die on) but it's really not as horrendous as everyone seems to think it is.

The real thing is the Convention itself. As soon as Homely comes back to certify the results and then the Senate selects 5 delegates, we can get this show on the road!

At that point, we'll have a plethora of more important things to argue about. I suggest everyone saves their outrage and melodrama for then, instead of burning it all up over the voting method, thank you.

[Marokai Backbeat]

If the last big ConCon was any indication there will be plenty of melodrama to go around.

[ilikeverin]

If the last big ConCon was any indication there will be plenty of melodrama to go around.

Raise hell, Marokai.

This will be the first ConCon that I have not been a delegate to.  Womp-womp

[Lincoln Republican]

I would very much like to thank everyone who voted for me and sent me to the Constitutional Convention as a delegate.

As well, thank you very much to all who offered themselves as candidates for delegate, and to all those who participated in the delegate election as voters, regardless of who you voted for.  This is, after all, the very essence of democracy.

I am hopeful this act of democracy, the initiating of a Constitutional Convention, will be the beginning of a new and dynamic Atlasia.

Onward and upward.  A new day is about to dawn over this struggling democracy.  A glorious era of renewal and commitment is coming my friends.  Let us press forward with a renewed courage and a revitalized sense of hope and  optimism in our future, a future we will face together with ever growing confidence.

In Emerson's splendid words,  hitch your wagon to a star.

[Lincoln Republican]

I suggest the first thing we do as a Constitutional Conventional is to create an entirely new  Child Board in the Atlas Fantasy Government section called

Constitutional Convention 2015

This will keep the new Constitutional Convention business completely separated from that of the Constitutional Convention of 2009, and give us a new start, besides making it much easier to follow.

[Leinad]

This will be the first ConCon that I have not been a delegate to.  Womp-womp

It looks like the Senate are considering you for one of the last 5 spots. Maybe you could go and make your case to them? Your experience would certainly be an asset to us at the Convention, especially with so many of us newer Atlasians as delegates.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I totally agree--my argument is that conventional definitions of ideology in real-world terms (libertarian, conservative, liberal, moderate, socialist, etc.) is about as important as what people's favorite ice cream flavor is.

In other words, it should be balanced by ideology, but the issues aren't traditional ones such as economics or social matters, but issues as far as the game is concerned, so looking at conventional ideological terms does us no good to balance it by ideology, because that isn't the "ideology" that is important here.

I think that makes sense...

Well, if you had been around when the debate over whether to reform the game or not occurred two years ago, then you'd understand that the fundamental reactions based on what to do (or whether to do anything at all) were based in basic ideological viewpoints (predominantly, conservativism and regionalism with regards to obstructing reform, and the lack of concern for regionalism with regards to enacting reform). In addition, there were deep and obvious roots of partisanship involved in the process as well.   

     Partisanship and typical ideological splits inform a lot of what goes on here in Atlasia, but not all. The rise of the Mock Parliament has shown us that there are splits that are less apparent than party registration. Also, I thought the public vote was pretty well split between my allies and my opponents.

[Bacon King]

These are the people writing our new Constitution

Northeast: Oakvale, Winfield, RGN08, Clyde1998
Mideast: JCL, Windjammer, vivaportugalhabs, NeverAgain
South: NCYankee, Leinad, Adam Griffin
Midwest: Cris, Marokai
Pacific: Simfan, Classic Conservative
Senators: Kalwejt, Lumine, RPryor, Harry S Truman, PiT
conservative: Tmthforu94, Clark Kent
progressive: Bore, evergreen
centrist: (to be determined; BMotley currently leading with 3 out of 5 votes)

At least 17 of these 25 esteemed delegates must vote in favor of the final draft for it to pass

[Oakvale]

Jesus.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

These are the people writing our new Constitution

Northeast: Oakvale, Winfield, RGN08, Clyde1998
Mideast: JCL, Windjammer, vivaportugalhabs, NeverAgain
South: NCYankee, Leinad, Adam Griffin
Midwest: Cris, Marokai
Pacific: Simfan, Classic Conservative
Senators: Kalwejt, Lumine, RPryor, Harry S Truman, PiT
conservative: Tmthforu94, Clark Kent
progressive: Bore, evergreen
centrist: (to be determined; BMotley and pikachu currently tied with 2 votes each)

At least 17 of these 25 esteemed delegates must vote in favor of the final draft for it to pass

or, in other words, a group of 9 anti-reformists can block any significant change from happening.

rip in peace constitutional convention, rip in peace atlasia.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

These are the people writing our new Constitution

Northeast: Oakvale, Winfield, RGN08, Clyde1998
Mideast: JCL, Windjammer, vivaportugalhabs, NeverAgain
South: NCYankee, Leinad, Adam Griffin
Midwest: Cris, Marokai
Pacific: Simfan, Classic Conservative
Senators: Kalwejt, Lumine, RPryor, Harry S Truman, PiT
conservative: Tmthforu94, Clark Kent
progressive: Bore, evergreen
centrist: (to be determined; BMotley and pikachu currently tied with 2 votes each)

At least 17 of these 25 esteemed delegates must vote in favor of the final draft for it to pass

or, in other words, a group of 9 anti-reformists can block any significant change from happening.

rip in peace constitutional convention, rip in peace atlasia.

We knew this was going to be hard. Success will depend on whether the reform faction can overcome its internal divisions and unite for the good of the republic.

[Lincoln Republican]

These are the people writing our new Constitution

Northeast: Oakvale, Winfield, RGN08, Clyde1998
Mideast: JCL, Windjammer, vivaportugalhabs, NeverAgain
South: NCYankee, Leinad, Adam Griffin
Midwest: Cris, Marokai
Pacific: Simfan, Classic Conservative
Senators: Kalwejt, Lumine, RPryor, Harry S Truman, PiT
conservative: Tmthforu94, Clark Kent
progressive: Bore, evergreen
centrist: (to be determined; BMotley and pikachu currently tied with 2 votes each)

At least 17 of these 25 esteemed delegates must vote in favor of the final draft for it to pass

What is the mechanism for breaking this tie?