Constitutional Convention - Commentary thread.

[Leinad]

Yeah, it's funny how some people (Simfan, Bore) were going on about how long elections would take, but now you've got people thinking the Senate is some group of power-hungry maniacs who will shut down any sensible reform (because obviously the Senate thinks and acts as one unit).

[Leinad]

Proposal to elect delegates? OHMYGOD THIS IS TAKING SOOOO LONG THIS IS THE WORST SENATE IN HISTORY!!!!11!!!1!

Proposal to have some of the delegates appointed? OHMYGOD THIS IS SOOOO UNDEMOCRATIC THIS IS THE WORST SENATE IN HISTORY!!!!1!1!!!1!!!!11!!

Proposal to have some of the delegates chosen by the parties themselves? OHMYGOD THIS IS SOOOO PARTISAN THIS IS THE WORST SENATE IN HISTORY!!!!!11!!11!!!!!

Proposal to have party-based delegates chosen, instead, by the senate? OHMYGOD THIS IS SOOOO UNDEMOCRATIC THIS IS THE WORST SENATE IN HISTORY!!!!!1!!!1!!!

My point: I think people just want to complain. Cris, Truman, and the rest of the Senate have done a fine job with the convention so far. It's hard to please everyone, especially when a frighteningly large faction have no interest in seeing the game succeed and just want to discourage the only functioning part of the federal government.

Just calm down everyone. Deep cleansing breaths.

[Leinad]

As far as I can tell, the Convention delegates will look something like this:

(Those that are simply guesses based on current votes in italics.)

PiT
Truman
Kalwejt
RPryor
Lumine
Winfield
Oakvale
RGN
Pikachu or Clyde (it's neck and neck)
EarlAW
NeverAgain
VivaPortugalHabs
Windjammer
Marokai Blue
Cris
Classic Conservative
Simfan
Adam Griffin
North Carolina Yankee
Leinad
[Reserved-"Conservative"]
[Reserved-"Conservative"]
[Reserved-"Progressive"]
[Reserved-"Progressive"]
[Reserved-"Centrist"]

This isn't an exact science (JCL might be in...I'm guessing on tiebreakers...) but it should be close.

Any names that should be on that list but aren't, Senators? Those last 5 spots are up to you to decide.

[Leinad]

So, the voting's over, right? It's been over 48 hours since it was opened, and Homely said exactly 48 hours.

[Leinad]

I think that ideology as in conservative/liberal/libertarian/moderate/socialist/etc. is less important than ideology as far as the game is concerned.

For example, I agree with ChairmanSanchez on more issues than with you, Adam, yet I disagree with his dissolutionist stance on Atlasia, but I like lots of your game reform ideas. And those are the things that matter more here. Tax policy, abortion, gay marriage, drug policy, gun control--none of those things matter in the Constitutional Convention.

Do you get what I'm saying? My point, to reiterate, is that one of the things everyone's been going on about is kind of irrelevant (sorry).

[Leinad]

I totally agree--my argument is that conventional definitions of ideology in real-world terms (libertarian, conservative, liberal, moderate, socialist, etc.) is about as important as what people's favorite ice cream flavor is.

In other words, it should be balanced by ideology, but the issues aren't traditional ones such as economics or social matters, but issues as far as the game is concerned, so looking at conventional ideological terms does us no good to balance it by ideology, because that isn't the "ideology" that is important here.

I think that makes sense...

[Leinad]

The Senate should only have been picking 5 out of the 25 delegates.

Should've stuck to my original idea instead of watering down ideological representation to 1/5 of the delegates

Voting on delegates would simply bog things down. Have the Senate select 10 delegates and the regions select 2 each, with a President of the Convention serving as a tie-breaker.

One thing's obviously true: it's impossible to get everyone to agree on something. There will always be some--if not most--people dissenting.

Having the Senate choose 5 Senators and 5 extra by ideology seems like a good compromise. It's probably not what I'd choose (I'm not convinced that the ideological/partisan picks are a good idea, although lots of people liked it so I decided it wasn't a hill to die on) but it's really not as horrendous as everyone seems to think it is.

The real thing is the Convention itself. As soon as Homely comes back to certify the results and then the Senate selects 5 delegates, we can get this show on the road!

At that point, we'll have a plethora of more important things to argue about. I suggest everyone saves their outrage and melodrama for then, instead of burning it all up over the voting method, thank you.

[Leinad]

This will be the first ConCon that I have not been a delegate to.  Womp-womp

It looks like the Senate are considering you for one of the last 5 spots. Maybe you could go and make your case to them? Your experience would certainly be an asset to us at the Convention, especially with so many of us newer Atlasians as delegates.

[Leinad]

Finalized list of delegates:

Northeast: Oakvale, Winfield, RGN08, Clyde1998
Mideast: JCL, Windjammer, vivaportugalhabs, NeverAgain
South: NCYankee, Leinad, Adam Griffin
Midwest: Cris, Marokai
Pacific: Simfan, Classic Conservative
Senators: Kalwejt, Lumine, RPryor, Harry S Truman, PiT
conservative: Tmthforu94, Clark Kent
progressive: Bore, evergreen
centrist: BMotley

Congratulations to all of those delegates!

Despite how dysfunctional and bizarre the selection process was, it's turned out well enough (as I predicted it would). Only a few active members missed out, and no one that unactive made it in. There are some colorful characters in there, along with intriguing differences of opinions, so it should be fun. Hopefully productive as well.

[Leinad]

I note that 7 out of 9, or 78%, of current Senators managed to get elected as Delegates to the Constitutional Convention.

Just sayin'.

Senators, Governors, and regional Speakers are generally much more active than others--which is why it's no surprise that 14 of them are delegates, and it's hard to say any of them don't deserve to be there. Of all who missed out I'd say the one with the best case to be here was the other governor (not a Senator, but still high-ranking).

Cris, Truman, Kalwejt, Lumine, RPryor, PiT, and Yankee are somewhat-to-extremely active Atlasians--I think they deserve a voice. I think it's a bit paranoid to think that the Senate will collude against the people to sink the nation--maybe I'm wrong, but it just has a low reading on my conspirometer (which rarely underestimates things, in my experience).

I wish I was a delegate so I could ram my ideas through with ease.

I had every expectation of you representing the South instead of me. I was surprised you didn't run for that and once I received a warning about the low number of candidates, I agreed to run as the deadline approached. Feel free to PM me as well.

Hardly a conspiracy, it seems for all my attempts to steer clear of this convention for its own sake, I get roped in closer by necessity.

Oh, I didn't know the procedure or how delegates were selected. I thought they were nominated or something like that.

Shows how well I have been paying attention recently.

You can contact me with any ideas as well--it's important we get as many people involved as the process as possible.

[Leinad]

I'm in favor of making Duke a delegate, no matter what rules we need to create/use in order to do it. I mean, we obviously need to pick someone, right?

If it could be done legally, since this is a seat that is one of 5 Senators that was elected by the Senate, as mandated by the delegate selection rules, then this seat should go to the Senator who finished next in line in this Senate election.

Only problem is that those 5 Senators were the only Senators in that election. Cris and Yankee were elected via the regions, while JoMCaR, New Canadaland, and Cassius declined to run at all.

The ConCon already lacks credibility due to being stuffed with zombie voters, dullards and most obviously, half (!!!!) the far-right Senate.

So you're against voting for delegates and against the Senate picking delegates...I'm sorry, how are we supposed to choose delegates?

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It was a mistake, not a conspiracy. Take off the tin-foil hat.

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Well, I agree with that.

Leinad (ultra-conservative)

...how in the seven circles of hades am I ultra-conservative?!?

[Leinad]

Neither I, nor you, nor anyone at the Constitutional Convention supports maintaining the existing state of affairs; we merely differ in the extent to which the system must be rebuilt.

This is an important point. We all want reform (I'm not sure if anyone supports the status quo long-term) we just have a plethora of differing ideas how to do it. And I think that's a good thing--the more variety the better! If we have enough people advocated different plans, maybe we could come together and find a plan that minimizes the downsides and maximizes the upsides of both. The point is that it won't be an echo-chamber, which is a very good thing. I hate echo-chambers.