Opinion of the "BDS Movement"?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

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[DavidB.]

Guess.

[RFayette]

Terrible, terrible movement.  Alas, too many at my current institution have been hoodwinked into this anti-Israel mode of thinking.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Opposition to Israeli government policy is synonymous with anti-Semitism, of course.

[bedstuy]

Israel is not perfect at all.

But, if you're going to boycott countries, it shouldn't be anywhere near the top of your list.  When you boycott and go completely nuts about the one Jewish country, while remaining silent about the myriad countries with worse human rights records, it looks anti-Semitic to me. 

The truth is that Western leftists hold Israel to a completely different standard than the rest of the world.  That's at least unfair, and often seems anti-Semitic. 

[Zioneer]

Israel is not perfect at all.

But, if you're going to boycott countries, it shouldn't be anywhere near the top of your list.  When you boycott and go completely nuts about the one Jewish country, while remaining silent about the myriad countries with worse human rights records, it looks anti-Semitic to me. 

The truth is that Western leftists hold Israel to a completely different standard than the rest of the world.  That's at least unfair, and often seems anti-Semitic. 

This, and also my preference would be for Israel to be forced to look to moderate Arab states (what few are left) as allies, and moderate its behavior towards Palestinians accordingly. If that happens, hopefully the rancor towards Israel can be reduced. As it is, with the US as its only main ally and staunch protector, Israel can do whatever it wants and thus is de facto encouraged to act aggressively and therefore badly.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

It was wrongheaded and discriminatory to begin with, but in recent years it's been infiltrated by radical, wildly anti-semitic anarchists and fringe elements of Neo-Nazi movements that have essentially turned it by and large into a hate group filled with blood libels and threats of violence towards an ethnic minority.

[SWE]

Freedom Movement (anti-apartheid)

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

HM (favors neutrality)

[TNF]

It won't achieve what it seeks to achieve, because unlike South Africa, Israel has a patron that is pretty much willing to put up with whatever it does, no matter how far it goes. Although it should be noted that BDS isn't what ultimately brought down Apartheid in South Africa. The credit there properly goes to the South Africans themselves who made so much of a ruckus that the racist government there was frightened into signing over its political control of the country, fearing of course losing the most important means of control (i.e. the industries of South Africa), which it continues to run even though it's officially been out of power for two decades now.

On the whole, I'd say I have no real opinion of BDS. The only way to guarantee the right of self-determination for Palestinians is a region-wide workers' revolution, and at this moment, that is quite a remote possibility, given that the left failed to develop even a leadership capable of fighting for that during the Arab Spring.

[Miles]

Freedom Movement (anti-apartheid)

[Hydera]

Im really amused about how much people can get their panties wet over BDS.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

FM. Sadism and Masochism is clearly a distinct entity from the other parts of that acronym. Glad to see it separating off.

Seriously, the only thing I'm considering in this movement is the divest part, and there are tons of horrible companies out there. Iirc, remax was specifically targeted? Pretty sure that gers through a lot of strict social responsibility screenings. I would definitely use it as a factor in my investment universe, but it's an aggregate of factors that I have to use ultimately. It's like this - Barilla is supposedly homophobic so all else equal, I'm going to buy San Giorgio in the store unless there is very strong reason not to. Don't usually go on an all out tirade on one small matter. Sorry to go all moderate heroish, but pretty soon, you'll divest all assets going this route.

[/]

You should add an M to the end in order to make it an FF.

[SATW]

Horrible movement run by antisemitic, anti-Zionist bigots. Specifically bigots who don't know what apartheid is.

Am Yisrael Chai.

[Figueira]

Israel is not perfect at all.

But, if you're going to boycott countries, it shouldn't be anywhere near the top of your list.  When you boycott and go completely nuts about the one Jewish country, while remaining silent about the myriad countries with worse human rights records, it looks anti-Semitic to me. 

The truth is that Western leftists hold Israel to a completely different standard than the rest of the world.  That's at least unfair, and often seems anti-Semitic. 

Are you seriously using the "anti-Israel=anti-Semitism" argument?

[bedstuy]

Israel is not perfect at all.

But, if you're going to boycott countries, it shouldn't be anywhere near the top of your list.  When you boycott and go completely nuts about the one Jewish country, while remaining silent about the myriad countries with worse human rights records, it looks anti-Semitic to me. 

The truth is that Western leftists hold Israel to a completely different standard than the rest of the world.  That's at least unfair, and often seems anti-Semitic. 

Are you seriously using the "anti-Israel=anti-Semitism" argument?

Did you read what I wrote? 

If you have one standard for the one Jewish country and another standard for every other country, it smacks of anti-Semitism. 

[dead0man]

Obvious racists are obvious.  And they don't even help the people they say they want to help, they just want to hurt.  I'm not saying everybody that is part of or supports BDS is a racist, but the organization, it's leaders and it's actions clearly are.  I'm not sure how non-racists can ignore that.

[SATW]

Obvious racists are obvious.  And they don't even help the people they say they want to help, they just want to hurt.  I'm not saying everybody that is part of or supports BDS is a racist, but the organization, it's leaders and it's actions clearly are.  I'm not sure how non-racists can ignore that.

[Intell]

Freedom Movement (anti-apartheid)

FF movement, and anyways opposition to Israel, Israel government policy and Israeli racism, is not antisemitism.

[Figueira]

Israel is not perfect at all.

But, if you're going to boycott countries, it shouldn't be anywhere near the top of your list.  When you boycott and go completely nuts about the one Jewish country, while remaining silent about the myriad countries with worse human rights records, it looks anti-Semitic to me. 

The truth is that Western leftists hold Israel to a completely different standard than the rest of the world.  That's at least unfair, and often seems anti-Semitic. 

Are you seriously using the "anti-Israel=anti-Semitism" argument?

Did you read what I wrote? 

If you have one standard for the one Jewish country and another standard for every other country, it smacks of anti-Semitism. 

I'll admit my reply was a bit simplistic. However, while I agree that some leftists (I don't think it's an exclusively Western phenomenon) are biased against Israel, I wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that they're antisemitic. There are other factors at play besides the fact that Israel is a Jewish state, like maybe a positive bias in favor of Palestine, not to mention that a lot of these people are Jewish themselves. It's unfair to assume that someone is bigoted when you don't have direct evidence of it.

Also, I think the solution is to start boycotting other countries, not to stop boycotting Israel. If we find that it's basically impossible to boycott, say, China, then maybe it would be best to just boycott the countries that are easy to boycott, like...Israel. Boycotting is a strategy, not a moral statement on which businesses/countries are right or wrong.

Anyway, while I'm generally opposed to ethnic-based nation-states (e.g. Israel) and I oppose the current actions of the Israeli government, I don't really know enough to have an opinion of this particular movement.

[politicus]

Anyway, while I'm generally opposed to ethnic-based nation-states (e.g. Israel) and I oppose the current actions of the Israeli government, I don't really know enough to have an opinion of this particular movement.

So basically you think any small people should be destined to be a minority everywhere? Easy position to take if you belong to a large and dominant culture, but deeply discriminatory. There is an inherent paradox in that by saying every ethnic group should be equal everywhere you are de facto discriminating the smaller ones. Anglophone Liberals and leftists always seem not to understand this.

[Figueira]

Anyway, while I'm generally opposed to ethnic-based nation-states (e.g. Israel) and I oppose the current actions of the Israeli government, I don't really know enough to have an opinion of this particular movement.

So basically you think any small people should be destined to be a minority everywhere? Easy position to take if you belong to a large and dominant culture, but deeply discriminatory. There is an inherent paradox in that by saying every ethnic group should be equal everywhere you are de facto discriminating the smaller ones. Anglophone Liberals and leftists always seem not to understand this.

Well no, we should obviously try to stop discrimination (by teaching people that racism and other forms of bigotry are bad). But the idea of the world being divided into countries where certain ethnic groups get advantages in certain countries and everyone else should be forced or pressured to leave is horrifying. A lot of groups have a history of living together in the same region, and I don't see why we should stop that. Plus, the concept of ethnicities being discrete blocks is an outright falsehood that shouldn't be encouraged.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

It's an idiotic idea.

[bedstuy]

Israel is not perfect at all.

But, if you're going to boycott countries, it shouldn't be anywhere near the top of your list.  When you boycott and go completely nuts about the one Jewish country, while remaining silent about the myriad countries with worse human rights records, it looks anti-Semitic to me. 

The truth is that Western leftists hold Israel to a completely different standard than the rest of the world.  That's at least unfair, and often seems anti-Semitic. 

Are you seriously using the "anti-Israel=anti-Semitism" argument?

Did you read what I wrote? 

If you have one standard for the one Jewish country and another standard for every other country, it smacks of anti-Semitism. 

I'll admit my reply was a bit simplistic. However, while I agree that some leftists (I don't think it's an exclusively Western phenomenon) are biased against Israel, I wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that they're antisemitic. There are other factors at play besides the fact that Israel is a Jewish state, like maybe a positive bias in favor of Palestine, not to mention that a lot of these people are Jewish themselves. It's unfair to assume that someone is bigoted when you don't have direct evidence of it.

Also, I think the solution is to start boycotting other countries, not to stop boycotting Israel. If we find that it's basically impossible to boycott, say, China, then maybe it would be best to just boycott the countries that are easy to boycott, like...Israel. Boycotting is a strategy, not a moral statement on which businesses/countries are right or wrong.

Anyway, while I'm generally opposed to ethnic-based nation-states (e.g. Israel) and I oppose the current actions of the Israeli government, I don't really know enough to have an opinion of this particular movement.

I don't know what is in individual people's hearts.  Something can be anti-Semitic in practice, even if it's not anti-Semitic in individual intent.  The fact is that the rest of the world is intensely anti-Semitic.  Outside of the UK, US, Canada, Israel and a few other countries, people are generally anti-Semitic.  This affects how Israel is treated.   

For example, people can hate Barack Obama because he's black.  And, then people jump on that bandwagon without having a racist intent.  But, it's still racist if you treat Barack Obama differently because he's black, even if you're not consciously doing it.   

Nobody is boycotting plenty of countries which have far worse human rights records than Israel.  And, if you care about human rights pressure, no country will get that pressure more than Israel.  If you're worried about a country not getting criticized enough in the media and international community, it's not Israel.  Maybe you should worry about one of those humanitarian crises that nobody cares about because it's not happening in the holy land and doesn't involve Jews.