dutch population in the hudson valley
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  dutch population in the hudson valley
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freepcrusher
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« on: September 27, 2015, 01:29:15 AM »

It's well documented in history that the area was settled by the dutch. Harlem I think is a dutch name and further up the Hudson Valley, there are vestiges of the dutch founders. Martin Van Buren I think was from that area and there was a prominent family in that time called the Van Rensselaers.

Were these dutch people fairly representative of Holland at the time? There aren't really any places in the hudson valley that have the insular conservative atmosphere of Western Michigan or Sioux County, IA.
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Torie
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2015, 08:11:51 AM »

The Dutch who came to the Hudson Valley were more mercantile, and less agrarian than those who immigrated later to be farmers in the Midwest. The Dutch community in the Hudson Valley was however quite insular, until after the Revolutionary War. Today, it is largely assimilated. There are Dutch names here, there and everywhere. And all the small rivers and creeks are called "kills." Van Rensselaer was a patroon who was granted a massive land area around Albany, and basically has his own commercial empire ala the Dutch West India Company, making his money mostly from beaver fur trading with the Indians. The patroon families, both Dutch and non Dutch (e.g. Livingston), intermarried, so everybody is related to everybody who has an early prominent ancestor in the Hudson Valley.
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kcguy
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2015, 09:41:07 AM »

There aren't really any places in the hudson valley that have the insular conservative atmosphere of Western Michigan or Sioux County, IA.

Just because the Hudson Valley is assimilated now doesn't mean it always was.  I've heard that Martin Van Buren and his wife both spoke Dutch as their native language, despite being born more than a century after the English conquest of New Netherlands.  It may seem that the Hudson Valley is more assimilated nowadays than a Holland, Michigan, but that may be simply because the Hudson Valley is a half-dozen generations further removed from the mother country.

(Coincidentally, I was watching a DVD yesterday of the PBS series Finding Your Roots.  One of Robert Downey, Jr's, ancestors was born in Pennsylvania, fought for the rebels in the American Revolution, and yet as late as the 19th century, he still wrote his last will and testament in German.  I know this paragraph is slightly off topic, but I find it interesting nonetheless.)
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Torie
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2015, 10:28:21 AM »

I said largely assimilated now, not then.  Dutch was spoken until the Revolutionary War, after which younger Dutch started speaking English. The end of the Dutch language was when around 1815 or so, ministers saw that younger congregants did not understand Dutch, so they switched their sermons into English, which was the coup de grace for use of the language. I learned all this from a very knowledgable docent who had been doing it for 40 years, at the Bronck House in the Hudson Valley (the oldest standing house in the valley), the same family which gave The Bronx its name.  The family had a farm in The Bronx, and folks would say they were going to "the Broncks," and the "the" bit took, and so it is the only place that has a "the" before it of which I am aware. Bronx was an Anglicization of Bronck.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2015, 12:59:21 PM »

The Dutch who came to the Hudson Valley were more mercantile, and less agrarian than those who immigrated later to be farmers in the Midwest. The Dutch community in the Hudson Valley was however quite insular, until after the Revolutionary War. Today, it is largely assimilated. There are Dutch names here, there and everywhere. And all the small rivers and creeks are called "kills." Van Rensselaer was a patroon who was granted a massive land area around Albany, and basically has his own commercial empire ala the Dutch West India Company, making his money mostly from beaver fur trading with the Indians. The patroon families, both Dutch and non Dutch (e.g. Livingston), intermarried, so everybody is related to everybody who has an early prominent ancestor in the Hudson Valley.
The first Dutch settlement was near Albany, in 1615. It was intended for the fur trade. The Hudson was used by the Dutch, like the St. Lawrence and Great Lakes were by the French.

A settlement was made at Gloucester on the Delaware in 1623, the main city became Wilmington after the Dutch displaced the Swedish.

New Amsterdam was founded in 1626 (according to Wikipedia, the settlers were mostly Walloon). If true, this might form a critical distinction with areas like Grand Rapids. Since it was a trading settlement they could likely speak Dutch, but would probably have been Roman Catholic. I think I recall that the Dutch in the Hudson area would attend a Lutheran Church in Athens.

A settlement was made near Hartford in 1633, but was turned over to the English in 1653 (were the colonies considered English, rather than British, prior to the Act of Union in 1707, though I think there was a Scottish colony in Central America?)

The English conquered New Amsterdam in 1664, so the period of Dutch sovereignty was short. Nonetheless, they would have had a head start on settling the Hudson. Under the early Hanoverians there would probably not be resistance to further settlement from the Netherlands or Germany.

The Hudson is not prime agricultural territory. The Catskills would not be as heavily settled as they are if not for proximity to New York City. By the time New York City was becoming a booming metropolis needing to import food, the Erie Canal was built.

Livingston Manor was a grant from Queen Anne. It was rented out to farmers, who were usually in arrears, and would either abscond or be kicked out. Germantown was part of the manor, settled with German from the Palatine, and intended to produce naval stores. Most of the Germans left to go west of the River where they could buy land or squat.

When the Proprietors founded Hudson in 1785, there were docks at the site to serve the Dutch farmers in the hinterland. Hudson was founded by Americans from Nantucket, who wanted a whaling port more secure from the British. One of the Dutch who sold his land to the proprietors, has the same surname as the current mayor, and is almost assuredly descended from that family.

Hudson was very quickly settled, so most would not be from farmers. Later, Martin Van Buren would practice law. Having looked at a lot of Hudson census records, it is remarkable how many persons were born in New York, and both parents were born in New York. It is quite unlike in the West, where it was quite likely an adult was not born in a State, and almost a certainty that the parents were born in a different state, but outside the USA.

In the industrialization period around the turn of the 19th century, there were a lot of Poles, Italians, and various Austrian possessions. There was a boarding house where all the boarders were Ruthenian.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 01:08:34 AM »

It's well documented in history that the area was settled by the dutch. Harlem I think is a dutch name and further up the Hudson Valley, there are vestiges of the dutch founders. Martin Van Buren I think was from that area and there was a prominent family in that time called the Van Rensselaers.

Were these dutch people fairly representative of Holland at the time? There aren't really any places in the hudson valley that have the insular conservative atmosphere of Western Michigan or Sioux County, IA.

Ironically the Dutch settlement of New Netherland wasn't particularly Dutch. It had a large Huguenot population (really French or Walloon even if was identical in religion to the Dutch Calvinists). The Dutch also hired many German soldiers, which should not be much of a surprise. Dutch and German nationality were barely separate during the Dutch settlement of the Hudson Valley. There were Scandinavian sailors who abandoned ships for farming.  The Dutch invited almost any refugees from religious persecution -- anyone not Catholic. Even some Quakers came from New England to get away from trouble.   

Many people in the Dutch colony had Spanish surnames -- but they were definitely not the Latin-Americans that one would expect today. They were Jewish refugees from the Inquisition. There were Greek refugees from Turkish conquests.

By the time of the English takeover the Dutch colony in New Netherland wasn't particularly Dutch.   
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King of Kensington
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« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015, 03:32:37 PM »

The 1790 census reported that New York was, I believe, 17% Dutch ancestry.

A good number of Dutch Loyalists went to Upper Canada too, and they quickly assimilated and there's pretty much no trace of their presence in Eastern Ontario.
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