How much of the 20th century is repealed if the GOP wins in 2016?
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  How much of the 20th century is repealed if the GOP wins in 2016?
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Author Topic: How much of the 20th century is repealed if the GOP wins in 2016?  (Read 1217 times)
Col. Roosevelt
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« on: September 27, 2015, 01:58:08 AM »

How much of the 20th century is repealed if the GOP wins in 2016? I think we can say goodbye to the EPA and FDA as well as the Departments of Education and Energy, at the very least.
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Miles
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2015, 02:15:29 AM »

Hopefully the Fed too, but that's more wishful thinking.
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Taco Truck 🚚
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2015, 12:17:00 PM »

I think we can say goodbye to the EPA and FDA as well as the Departments of Education and Energy, at the very least.

You, like Rick Perry, obviously don't know what most of those departments do.

Within a week of the greatest environmental fraud of our time you really think the American people have an appetite for shuttering the EPA?  Are you a VW plant?  The EPA is about to slap VW with a fine that will cover it's budget for years.  I don't think there are a lot of hardcore conservatives cruising around in VW Golfs.  No tears are going to be shed over that enforcement action here in the US.

And after the debacle with peanuts and Blue Bell ice cream you really think people want the FDA shut down?

I don't know what to say about energy.  Most Americans don't even think about energy these days.  $2 gasoline has a way of making people move on to other issues.
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Crumpets
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2015, 12:25:27 PM »
« Edited: September 27, 2015, 12:32:33 PM by Thinking Crumpets Crumpet »

I think they repeal 1961-1969 and 1933-1945. Not the laws, just the years. Kids in school will read about how Nixon took over after Eisenhower and got us out of Vietnam, and how Hoover paved the way for a peaceful and secure Europe without ever having to go to war.
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2015, 12:43:01 PM »

Energy mainly runs the U.S. Nuclear department, for the most part. And since as far as I know very few Republicans are advocating unilateral disarmament, then...
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mencken
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2015, 01:03:34 PM »

Unfortunately none of it. The ratchet effect is too pervasive.
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Schadenfreude
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2015, 01:18:05 PM »

Energy mainly runs the U.S. Nuclear department, for the most part. And since as far as I know very few Republicans are advocating unilateral disarmament, then...

It's nice to know someone actually knows what some of these departments do.  When Sarah Palin recently said she would be good at running the Department of Energy I was stunned into silence.  Think about it.  Sarah Palin running Los Alamos.
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BRTD
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2015, 01:30:51 PM »

Worth noting Energy was the third department Rick Perry wanted to abolish but couldn't remember in that infamous debate moment. But of course such a proposal in a debate throwing red meat to the base and actually enacting it are quite different.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2015, 01:41:15 PM »

This meme that  Republicans aren't just as in love with modernity as the Democrats is kind of ridiculous.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2015, 02:12:31 PM »

None of it. No one is going to repeal the FDA or EPA, stop being unrealistic. What happened to government after every Republican president since Eisenhower? It GREW.

Hopefully the Fed too, but that's more wishful thinking.

You're in favor of that?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2015, 02:42:39 PM »

Energy mainly runs the U.S. Nuclear department, for the most part. And since as far as I know very few Republicans are advocating unilateral disarmament, then...

It's nice to know someone actually knows what some of these departments do.  When Sarah Palin recently said she would be good at running the Department of Energy I was stunned into silence.  Think about it.  Sarah Palin running Los Alamos.

Yes, I saw that. Amusingly, when prodded further she explained that she wanted more federal land to be opened up to fossil fuel production ... Which is a fair position if you're that way inclined, but actually falls under the Interior Department's remit. D'oh!
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CrabCake
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2015, 02:48:36 PM »

Anyway, talk of demolishing or scrapping agencies is overblown nonsense. At best maybe Commerce would be got rid of, and even then most of its staff and offices simply transferred to other agencies. No, the established patten for how to undermine an agency is to simply replace all its top figures with your own stooges and allow them to fester. Fossil fuel types to Interior and EPA; Union-busters to the NLRB; utility people to Energy etc. That's one of the powers everybody forgets presidents have.
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Bigby
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2015, 08:02:12 PM »

Hopefully the Fed too, but that's more wishful thinking.

Are you sure that you need a D avatar?
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Miles
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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2015, 08:06:25 PM »

Hopefully the Fed too, but that's more wishful thinking.

Are you sure that you need a D avatar?

Yep Cheesy
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2015, 10:09:14 PM »


The Fed of the Great Depression is not the same as the Fed of today.  If the Fed then had been in charge at the start of the Great Recession they probably would have raised or at the very least left interest rates unchanged, thus making the Great Recession into the Second Great Depression.
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BRTD
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2015, 10:48:16 PM »

None of it. No one is going to repeal the FDA or EPA, stop being unrealistic. What happened to government after every Republican president since Eisenhower? It GREW.

That was before the Tea Party.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2015, 11:09:42 PM »

None of it. No one is going to repeal the FDA or EPA, stop being unrealistic. What happened to government after every Republican president since Eisenhower? It GREW.

That was before the Tea Party.

Do you really think the Tea Party would have any affect on the nominating process, or that they even want smaller government? 80% of Republicans thought Bush did a good job while in office. That alone speaks tremendous volumes as to what they actually care about.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2015, 12:09:45 AM »

None of it. No one is going to repeal the FDA or EPA, stop being unrealistic. What happened to government after every Republican president since Eisenhower? It GREW.

That was before the Tea Party.

Do you really think the Tea Party would have any affect on the nominating process, or that they even want smaller government? 80% of Republicans thought Bush did a good job while in office. That alone speaks tremendous volumes as to what they actually care about.

The federal government did unambiguously decline as a percent of GDP under Truman (obviously a little something was driving this), Eisenhower, and curiously, Clinton.  It also looks like fed spending/GDP declined under Kennedy and Nixon.  So it's really quite incorrect to claim that government has monotonically grown faster than the economy as a whole like some inherent law of nature.

As for what could change under unified GOP government, I don't think the New Deal will be going anywhere.  After all, the elderly white Republican base depends on its programs more than anyone else.  I would worry more about what SCOTUS could do.  If Ginsburg leaves under a Republican president and senate (the latter basically assured through 2020 in any scenario where a Republican president wins in 2016), Roe v. Wade is gone in 2 years.  If Ginsburg and Kennedy both leave, then no Warren Court precedent is safe.  Expect any civil rights laws that place burdens on employers to be read very, very narrowly.  And the 2020 Dem nominee says thank God for the 24th Amendment...
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The Mikado
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2015, 01:05:35 PM »

Much of the 20th century was terrible, unfathomably horrible events, I wouldn't mind a do-over.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2015, 02:33:55 PM »

Much of the 20th century was terrible, unfathomably horrible events, I wouldn't mind a do-over.

So you'd rather go back to 40 year average lifespans, 2-3% risk of death in childbirth per birth, uncontrolled infectious disease in general, much more violent crime, and slavery/a severe racial caste system being a fundamental feature of society?  All because a few sociopaths found a way to use technology to kill people more efficiently than in the past before the international community rose up and stopped basically every last one of them?  Dude, life's not perfect, but get some perspective!
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longtimelurker
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2015, 10:49:54 PM »

Much of the 20th century was terrible, unfathomably horrible events, I wouldn't mind a do-over.

No way am I doing high school over again.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2015, 11:30:33 PM »

Much of the 20th century was terrible, unfathomably horrible events, I wouldn't mind a do-over.

So you'd rather go back to 40 year average lifespans, 2-3% risk of death in childbirth per birth, uncontrolled infectious disease in general, much more violent crime, and slavery/a severe racial caste system being a fundamental feature of society?  All because a few sociopaths found a way to use technology to kill people more efficiently than in the past before the international community rose up and stopped basically every last one of them?  Dude, life's not perfect, but get some perspective!

What are you talking about? Genocide, ethnic cleansing, human-organized famine, and the like aren't aberrations or isolated incidents, they are the direct product and natural result of the process of "modernization" that was such a fixation in the 19th and 20th century and which continues to reap horrendous consequences around the world.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2015, 11:35:28 PM »

I think this guy is LBJ Revivalist. He sounds like him.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2015, 11:45:59 PM »

So are we going to pretend that the catastrophic 20th century was somehow not the worst since the 14th?

I have something of an allergic reaction to phrases like the thread title that imply that history is a line you can go "forwards" and "backwards" on and that "forwards" is inherently good while "backwards" is inherently bad. It's vulgar Whiggery of the same sort that underpins the vile term "progressive." Why so many 21st century left-wingers want to cloak themselves in the garb of eugenics, phrenology, and temperance is beyond me.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2015, 11:46:58 PM »

Much of the 20th century was terrible, unfathomably horrible events, I wouldn't mind a do-over.

So you'd rather go back to 40 year average lifespans, 2-3% risk of death in childbirth per birth, uncontrolled infectious disease in general, much more violent crime, and slavery/a severe racial caste system being a fundamental feature of society?  All because a few sociopaths found a way to use technology to kill people more efficiently than in the past before the international community rose up and stopped basically every last one of them?  Dude, life's not perfect, but get some perspective!

What are you talking about? Genocide, ethnic cleansing, human-organized famine, and the like aren't aberrations or isolated incidents, they are the direct product and natural result of the process of "modernization" that was such a fixation in the 19th and 20th century and which continues to reap horrendous consequences around the world.

You don't get the 80 year lifespans with virtually all children living to adulthood, antibiotics, social security, political rights for women and the end of most overt racial discrimination without global capitalism, free trade and some level of democracy.  It's a package deal.  And yes, there's severe inequality, but 80%+ of the world is still better off than the subsistence farmers of the 18th century who made the equivalent of a few $100 to a couple $1000 in today's money per large family per year.  And there's some pollution etc. to deal with, but even if we messed with the environment so badly that we collectively lost half the arable land on the planet, most people would still be better off than in 1750.  
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