Federalist Party Irregular Emergency Meeting (Closed)

[Classic Conservative]

I have many allies in the Federalist movement. You are only tolerated out of pity!!!

I have not been given a fair hearing. No one has asked me any legitimate questions or waited for the release of my plan. This is outrageous!!!

For Gods sake how are you a conservative when you have a -3.74 Economic and a .74 Social PM score for Gods sake this thing is not a true conservative.

[Talleyrand]

I have no idea why I am engaging with a certified diplodocus such as yourself!!!! I really do have too much patience.

That said, that PM score is outdated and several years old from my naive moderate stage; I have moved to the right since then. I am a conservative by Atlasian standards, and will prove that through the powerful plan I am releasing Wednesday.

Not sure if it's penetrated your thick head yet, but not all conservatives are outdated barnacles like you!!!

[Classic Conservative]

I have no idea why I am engaging with a certified diplodocus such as yourself!!!! I really do have too much patience.

That said, that PM score is outdated and several years old from my naive moderate stage; I have moved to the right since then. I am a conservative by Atlasian standards, and will prove that through the powerful plan I am releasing Wednesday.

Not sure if it's penetrated your thick head yet, but not all conservatives are outdated barnacles like you!!!

Oh for Gods sake I'm outdated I urge a YEA on this measure to take away membership from Talleyrandbull.

[Talleyrand]

 

I strongly urge a suspension of this vote, and ask that it be reopened on Wednesday.

[Leinad]

City Selection:

Official Ballot (please rank the following):
[3] Ashland, Oregon
[5] Ripon, Wisconsin
[4] Portland, Maine
[2] Mobile, Alabama
[1] McKinney, Texas

Expulsion Vote

Official Ballot:
[X] Aye
[  ] Nay

We can totally be a democratic party and expulse members who take positions hostile to our platform and our nation. We're a private entity, not a public one. I have no opposition to Talleyrand, or anyone, running, but I take issue with someone carrying the party's flag into battle even though they have frankly anti-Atlasian positions, and a history of trollish behavior.

Here's just one example I dug up:

As for a reboot or convention, that's politically unfeasible as long as you have the "regional rights" and reactionaries in this game. The best way forward is to give the game a dignified death after eleven long years and start afresh on a smaller scale with more focus on what actually makes this game fun.

With context, he was clearly talking about Federalists like Yankee. But beyond that, it's a testament to his dissolve-first-ask-questions-later approach that he hasn't retracted, as far as I can tell. That method would be disastrous, and we've moved beyond that with the Constitutional Convention.

And over in South America, he proposed a similarly disastrous sweeping ban on simultaneous officeholding (which, for what it's worth, was shot down by yours truly). He still holds that belief:

However, I'd advocate ban on holding offices in the two games simultaneously, since it's a tantamount for conflict of interests if there are differences between the two sides (more than likely). Imagine someone trying to be a United States Senator and Minister in Brazil at the same time. Utterly illogical.

This was literally proposed by Talleyrand and subjected to howls of derision and went on to form the basis of the shrieking about ANTI-FANTASYLAND SENTIMENT.

Yes! I am in favor of what the Senator has proposed here, but I am frankly puzzled by the fact that when I suggested a similarly reasonable plan, it was shouted down as "bitter" and an attempt to destroy this nation, including by Mr. Griffin, a terrorist who has done far more damage to this game than the unfairly maligned Mock Parliament.

Kalwejt was later convinced to take the reasonable approach, which I agree with, to only limit it to key offices like the President, Prime Minister, or foreign relations officials. But there was no change of heart by our new "Federalist" senate candidate.

And not only does he hold stances that we all know will send Atlasia further down the tubes (including openly wanting to send it down there), his consistent uncivil behaviour, even towards members of what's supposedly his own party, is enough "character witness" evidence to say this isn't the guy we want representing us in the senate. Take, for example, him basically calling one of our senator's an idiot:

Welcome to the party

Glad to have the support of posters from all intelligence levels!

Not to mention his bombardment of insults on the Pacific Speaker in this thread, his previous accusations that I was a sock (which, unlike another person who accused me of that around the same time, he never apologized or even explained it--to this day I'm unsure how he thought I "basically admitted it"), and the fact that he seems to have re-registered merely to get rid of one of the only two functioning members of the executive branch.

Look, I'm not saying he should be banned from Atlasia, or shouldn't run. I'm just saying that we shouldn't let him run under the Federalist Party banner.

(You may be thinking that this is a rather long post merely to settle an argument that's basically already settled, but for one thing, it basically wrote itself, and for another thing, this is also to pre-emptively keep people from bashing us for this decision later on. And please don't cherry-pick one weak point--I made many points. It's a no-brainer.)

[Talleyrand]

With all due respect Mr. Leinad,

I have settled my disputes with Mr. Conservative already. As for Mr. JoMCaR, he has had a pattern of highly disturbed, bizarre behavior dating back many years, as evidenced by his viper-like contradictory posts on my campaign thread and this one. He has made vicious attacks on me even when I took care to behave with political correctness!!!

I have no desire to fight with the Federalist Party and I have taken on stances at odds with the party's platform. That is a patently false statement!!!

In addition, you are making blatant lies about my views on dual officeholding; I have stated multiple times that the compromise initially proposed by Mr. Oakvale and later proposed by Mr. Kalwejt was an acceptable one. Of course, you lack the intellectual honesty or decency to acknowledge that!

And I have stated many times I no longer support dissolution, but creating a better game from the shambles we are currently in. Once again, you are totally making up facts here. And as for my statements on regional rights, I believe that Mr. Yankee now acknowledges the crisis we are in and is open to reform; I believe we have more in common than ever before.

And I have never accused you of being a sock since your first weeks here, which were several months ago.

Glad we cleared that up!

I have also reached out to multiple individuals in this party proposing to meet at a common ground and to sign a pledge on their terms, but have received no response. If anyone is the wronged party here, it is myself.

-Talleyrand

[Clark Kent]

Leinad, I completely understand where you're coming from. It's just that I have a personal objection to expulsion, since it seems dangersouly close to the purges of the communists.

[Simfan34]

This is ridiculous. The Federalist Party is better than this.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

City Selection:
Okay a vote is now open on our convention city and this will laste for 72 hours.

Official Ballot (please rank the following):
[ 2 ] Ashland, Oregon
[ 5 ] Ripon, Wisconsin
[ 3 ] Portland, Maine
[ 1 ] Mobile, Alabama
[ 4 ] McKinney, Texas

Expulsion Vote
A motion for the expulsion of Talleyrand has been filed and seconded, please vote for or against the expulsion:

Official Ballot:
[X] Aye
[X] Nay

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Leinad, I completely understand where you're coming from. It's just that I have a personal objection to expulsion, since it seems dangersouly close to the purges of the communists.

This party has long needed an overhall of the bylaws, there should be either a higher vote standard or something. I know Talley and his friends love barebonesing it, but in this case, that could be what hangs him.

I know, to my knowledge the only person this party has ever expelled was Ben Kenobi and Napoleon. In the later's case their was a surge of people joining to try and influence a primary in both directions, Nappy was the only one actually expelled that I recall. I know Tmth was pushed out in early 2013 but I cannot remember how Hagrid went about that off the top of my head. He later returned and became Chairman in December 2013, so it would be ironic as hell if that were the case.

Expulsion can be dangerous and it can in fact destroy a party that it is why it has to be used with restraint. On the other hand, I understand there are a variety of concerns regarding Talleyrand and a long history that would naturally lead one to doubt his intentions. As chairman I shall oblige myself to remain neutral. The bylaws call for a vote once the motion has been made and seconded and once that is the case, a majority vote is required.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And I have stated many times I no longer support dissolution, but creating a better game from the shambles we are currently in. Once again, you are totally making up facts here. And as for my statements on regional rights, I believe that Mr. Yankee now acknowledges the crisis we are in and is open to reform; I believe we have more in common than ever before.

You left the Labor party because it split over the districts proposal, not because you had moved to right. Had districts gone through, would you still be a member of the Labor Party?

You claim to have moved to the right, after years of facilitating the worst excessess of Labor and openly pushing for the very partisan Senate administration we got a taste of last summer with TNF running the place. Ironically, this transitition sounds very similar to a certain someone who also likewise claimed to have moved to the right, but still continued to facilitate such excesses for months and even years until arguably a rather convient opportunity came around to parade as a paragon of Conservatism.  Undertanbly we would be weary as a result.

I support consolidation, I do not support regional abolition, nor the abolition of Regional Senate seats. Supporting reform does not equal being anti-region, and approaching it from that mindset, surely you can see will set off still more red flags.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

City Selection:
Okay a vote is now open on our convention city and this will laste for 72 hours.

Official Ballot (please rank the following):
[ 2 ] Ashland, Oregon
[ 5 ] Ripon, Wisconsin
[ 3 ] Portland, Maine
[ 4 ] Mobile, Alabama
[ 1 ] McKinney, Texas


Before I vote wether or not to expel Tallyrandbull I do think he should be given right to defend himself. I have 2 questions;

How do you explain a significantly left of center economic PM score than the vast majority, if not all Federalists, Civic Renewalists, and DR's? It still seems strange that you have a more conservative social pm score than I do given my rather pro-religious role and influence in our society.

Can you also address Yankees concerns that he laid out in the post previous to mine?

[BaconBacon96]

Official Ballot (please rank the following):
[2] Ashland, Oregon
[4] Ripon, Wisconsin
[1] Portland, Maine
[5] Mobile, Alabama
[3] McKinney, Texas

Expulsion Vote:

Official Ballot:
[  ] Aye
[X] Nay

Yes I am technically a member.

[Leinad]

I have no desire to fight with the Federalist Party and I have taken on stances at odds with the party's platform. That is a patently false statement!!!

I believe you mean "no stances?" If so, it's not a false statement. Maybe it's not in the party platform, but I'd say most of us are for a Constitutional Convention (when you left before you were against it, preferring dissolution) and against a sweeping dual officeholding ban (which I will explain shortly...), and these are big issues, given that those positions are dangerous to the future of Atlasia.

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Sure, you support the compromise, but you're still in favor of a larger ban, right? As I said above, on September 24th you clearly indicated that you still supported that idea, and unless I missed something haven't reversed those beliefs.

And apparently I'm an intellectually dishonest liar who lacks decency? This unsolicited rudeness won't win you any support. I'm not bothered by it, it's just annoying when name-calling is the best someone can come up with.

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When have you rescinded those beliefs? I apologize if I missed that--I'm not that obsessed where I dig through every post of yours to find something like that.

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I never said otherwise. The point is that, combined with other uncivil discourse and trollish behaviour, it's a "character witness" thing. It's not just one point--I made many points. Your conduct with me, JoMCaR, Classic Conservative in this thread, and your attempts to remove one of the few functioning members of the executive branch, all together, makes me cynical of your intentions.

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I responded.

Leinad, I completely understand where you're coming from. It's just that I have a personal objection to expulsion, since it seems dangersouly close to the purges of the communists.

The difference is that we're a political party, not the government. We aren't saying he can't be in Atlasia, say what he wants, run for office, or even take office--no, we're just questioning whether he should be a member of our party. I think we have the right to do that.

[Talleyrand]

I am busy until around 10 this evening. I will respond to all inquiries/slanders/questions at that time, as well as release my comprehensive restoration plan!!!

[Türkisblau]

[Simfan34]

Where is the dual officeholding ban on the party platform?

[Oakvale]

Two fun things ITT.

The amusing thing in general is the Fedoralists gloating about their HISTORIC COMEBACK because literally everyone else quit the game and they elected their robots on historically low turnouts against the shattered rump of Labor and the stagnating TPP.

The amusing thing about the hysteria surrounding the officeholding ban is that Atlasia has literally the exact same thing in its Constitution, it's just that no-one's noticed it.

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[Türkisblau]

Yes, oakvale. Our current reactionary rulers love ignoring the letter of the law when it suits their political purposes. Can you really blame them if they want to have their "time to shine" after being locked out of power for so long, even if it's temporary and over the ashes of a fallen, once great, game?

[Oakvale]

I'd be happy to immediately resign from the Supreme Court and from my position in the Constitutional Convention if that clause is actually recognised, but apparently Atlasia still hasn't figured out whether South America "exists" or not.

[Senator Cris]

I'd be happy to immediately resign from the Supreme Court and from my position in the Constitutional Convention if that clause is actually recognised, but apparently Atlasia still hasn't figured out whether South America "exists" or not.

The President did that with an executive order.

[Oakvale]

I'd be happy to immediately resign from the Supreme Court and from my position in the Constitutional Convention if that clause is actually recognised, but apparently Atlasia still hasn't figured out whether South America "exists" or not.

The President did that with an executive order.

Yes but you all then decided that it was unconstitutional.

[Senator Cris]

I'd be happy to immediately resign from the Supreme Court and from my position in the Constitutional Convention if that clause is actually recognised, but apparently Atlasia still hasn't figured out whether South America "exists" or not.

The President did that with an executive order.

Yes but you all then decided that it was unconstitutional.

The Senate passed nothing against that executive order. So it's valid.

[Oakvale]

I'd be happy to immediately resign from the Supreme Court and from my position in the Constitutional Convention if that clause is actually recognised, but apparently Atlasia still hasn't figured out whether South America "exists" or not.

The President did that with an executive order.

Yes but you all then decided that it was unconstitutional.

The Senate passed nothing against that executive order. So it's valid.

Yeah but the reason they didn't pass is because of this

I urge the Senate to vote down this law because it's literally meaningless. Atlasian law clearly allows the President to establish diplomatic relations with Mock Parliment and to recognize it, but it doesn't mean anything beyond the factual recognition (i.e. no ambassadors, treaties, etc) without the approval of the Senate.

The one thing the president is able to do, he has done, the rest is already up to the will of the Senate. This bill just needlessly complicates existing legal precedent.

I'm still waiting for the opposite side of this debate to prove that bore does have established powers to issue that executive order. I'm yet to see this.

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Diplomatic_Mission_Act

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[Leinad]

The amusing thing about the hysteria surrounding the officeholding ban is that Atlasia has literally the exact same thing in its Constitution, it's just that no-one's noticed it.

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Well then we should get rid of that at the ConCon, because as I've explained ad nauseum, it's a badly destructive policy. The Constitution certainly needs to be updated in that regard--it was written in a pre-South American world.