Carson: Gravity, where does it come from?

[Mr. Morden]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122989/ben-carson-climate-change-gravity-where-did-it-come

You must be logged in to read this quote.

After first answering that “temperatures are going up and down”, Carson detoured:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Carson has a serious science problem.

[tpfkaw]

It's probably worth pointing out that Carson obviously wasn't literally asking where gravity comes from based on context, and also that while there are theories, science has not yet discovered where gravity comes from.

[Ljube]

Exactly. Nobody knows where gravity comes from.

[emailking]

It's probably worth pointing out that Carson obviously wasn't literally asking where gravity comes from based on context, and also that while there are theories, science has not yet discovered where gravity comes from.

It hasn't been unified with quantum mechanics, but we do know where it comes from. It arises from objects following the shortest path through curved spacetime, which is distorted by the presence of matter, energy, and pressure. All of this has been rigorously described mathematically. Now if you want to follow up with a bunch of why's about all of that ok, but that's where it comes from.

[Crumpets]

Honestly though, in my opinion, this is a terrible answer. The clear implication of his question is "we don't know yet... therefore God." If that is his reasoning, then he is a thoroughly uncurious person, which is the exact opposite of what a good President is.

Also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

My god, anybody can become a neurosurgeon.

[tpfkaw]

It hasn't been unified with quantum mechanics, but we do know where it comes from.

That's a rather big caveat. Either there has to be something gravity "comes from" consistent with quantum mechanics (and which has not yet been discovered), or our current understanding of quantum mechanics and/or general relativity must be incorrect. The latter is very unlikely, so it's fair to say that it isn't known "where gravity comes from."

[Crumpets]

It hasn't been unified with quantum mechanics, but we do know where it comes from.

That's a rather big caveat. Either there has to be something gravity "comes from" consistent with quantum mechanics (and which has not yet been discovered), or our current understanding of either quantum mechanics and/or general relativity must be incorrect. The latter is very unlikely, so it's fair to say that it isn't known "where gravity comes from."

And if Carson had said anything remotely like that, it wouldn't have been a problem. In context, though, it's more like "psh... gravity, who knows, who cares? amirite?"

[emailking]

It hasn't been unified with quantum mechanics, but we do know where it comes from.

That's a rather big caveat. Either there has to be something gravity "comes from" consistent with quantum mechanics (and which has not yet been discovered), or our current understanding of quantum mechanics and/or general relativity must be incorrect. The latter is very unlikely, so it's fair to say that it isn't known "where gravity comes from."

But at most that will result in tweaks to the theory, which do not obviate its accuracy or its explanation at non-microscopic scales. We may get a grander understanding of gravity, but it's not going to blow out of the water the basic explanation for why the apple falls from the tree. Before Einstein, that really was a mystery.

[Torie]

Yes, we know far more about the properties of gravity than what generates it. Ditto for electricity I think. I remember pushing my science teacher in High School about this very issue. The teacher was made quite uncomfortable. It's all about the difference between science and technology, with the latter more focused on how it works, than why it works.

[Angel of Death]

Also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alI12mhWZ2Q

[Mehmentum]

'I don't know every detail about how or why something works, therefore God must be the answer.'

We don't know why the laws of physics are the way they are.  Its possible that we'll figure out what determines the laws of physics with a unified theory of quantum gravity.  But then Carson could just ask why this mechanism for creating the laws of physics works. 

You can do the same thing to creationists.  Ask 'what created god?' or 'why does god exist?'.  They'll tell you that god is uncreated and eternal, or something like that.  Physicists could just say that 'gravity just is', but they don't.  Instead they acknowledge that we don't know everything, but that they're trying to figure it out.

[RI]

God of the Gaps is a pretty terrible argument and incredibly reductive.

[ElectionsGuy]

Good question. Can any of you answer that? I can't.

Though clearly, what the more implied thinking is that God made it all, which is legitimately terrible answer for a neurosurgeon.

[Kingpoleon]

My god, anybody can become a neurosurgeon.

My god, I'm glad he's no longer practicing.

[Figueira]

The "micro-evolution" thing is much more troubling, but it's expected from Carson.

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

My god, anybody can become a neurosurgeon.

My god, I'm glad he's no longer practicing.

The only logical explanation is that his final operation was a self-op that went horribly wrong.

[Rockefeller GOP]

Honestly though, in my opinion, this is a terrible answer. The clear implication of his question is "we don't know yet... therefore God." If that is his reasoning, then he is a thoroughly uncurious person, which is the exact opposite of what a good President is.

Also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs

So any POTUS who believes in God is unqualified?  Because if you have a conversation with an atheist about the original creation, you're often accused of using "The God of the Gaps" for anything, even if you put forth an articulate reason why you believe a higher power is the simplest and most logical explanation for that phenomenon ... Screaming "God of the Gaps" is becoming almost as you-can't-prove-me-wrong-so-I'm-right as shouting "God did it!"

Who's to say someday we won't find a "gap" that actually can only be explained by the works of a being outside of space-time?  Endlessly posturing that there will always be a non-designer related answer to the ultimate question isn't exactly logical, either.

[Holmes]

I saw a Ben Carson bumper sticker on a vehicle on the highway here in California. I don't know if it was in Santa Clara or Santa Cruz county, but it was south of San Jose. Thought it was very out of place for the location. That's the only Carson-related story I have.

I also saw a "I love B.S. (Bernie Sanders)" bumper sticker. Thought it was stupid to refer to your preferred candidate as BS.

Also a lot of people here in California have bumper stickers. Especially in Santa Cruz where they're mostly "coexist" or "Obama 08/12", weed- or vegetarian-related.

[Crumpets]

Honestly though, in my opinion, this is a terrible answer. The clear implication of his question is "we don't know yet... therefore God." If that is his reasoning, then he is a thoroughly uncurious person, which is the exact opposite of what a good President is.

Also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs

So any POTUS who believes in God is unqualified?   Because if you have a conversation with an atheist about the original creation, you're often accused of using "The God of the Gaps" for anything, even if you put forth an articulate reason why you believe a higher power is the simplest and most logical explanation for that phenomenon ... Screaming "God of the Gaps" is becoming almost as you-can't-prove-me-wrong-so-I'm-right as shouting "God did it!"

Who's to say someday we won't find a "gap" that actually can only be explained by the works of a being outside of space-time?  Endlessly posturing that there will always be a non-designer related answer to the ultimate question isn't exactly logical, either.

That's not at all what I said. I just get the impression from Carson's comments that if he were president in 1961 and he were asked about going to the moon, he'd say "God clearly doesn't want us to go to the moon, or he wouldn't have made it so hard to survive in space." Or, if he had been president in 1920 saying "We don't know if women have the same mental capacity as men, but it's clear from God's words, he wouldn't want them voting." It's not faith that turns me off to a candidate, it's when faith is used as an excuse for ignorance or clamping down on the advancement of human knowledge.

Also, just for the record, I'm not an atheist. I don't know if that was the impression you got from my post, but it kind of looks like it from your response.

[Ljube]

Yes, we know far more about the properties of gravity than what generates it. Ditto for electricity I think. I remember pushing my science teacher in High School about this very issue. The teacher was made quite uncomfortable. It's all about the difference between science and technology, with the latter more focused on how it works, than why it works.

That's true. I graduated electrical engineering and we don't know where electricity comes from and we know where gravity comes from even less.

However, we know that electricity and gravity both exist. We're not entirely sure how they work, but we are pretty sure that in most cases we can approximate their work using mathematical formulae.

Bottom line, Carson is right. And nobody who knows anything about gravity or electricity can claim otherwise.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

This is the educated man the GOP seeks! I'm sure I'll get it eventually - shame I vote a month before receiving my degree.

You know his book, What We Can Do To Save America's Future was originally titled Gravity, Sign of Our Wretched Depravity

[RFayette]

My god, anybody can become a neurosurgeon.

Spatial and hands-on skills do not correlate that tightly with standard academic skills, especially verbal intelligence and communication ability, which politics seems to emphasize....there are a lot of very "handy" people who might be considered "stupid" in other realms.   I really think you'd have to be pretty brilliant to become a brain surgeon.  My sister shadowed one for a week, and they have to use a microscope just to operate the tiny tools used.  Brain surgery is extremely serious and difficult business.  

Carson is right, but this isn't a great way to prove God's existence.  Nonetheless, he's a godly man who has devoted his life to serving the Lord and serving others, though I don't think he'd be a great President for other reasons.

[RFayette]

A brain surgeon pretty much by definition has to be very good at math and science.  Carson does hold a Biblical worldview (and unfortunately does not do a good job defending it), which some folks here may think makes him seem unintelligent or uneducated.  I concede he doesn't make his points eloquently, but I think it's pretty darn arrogant that a bunch of folks who've never been to medical school conclude that it's easy to become a brain surgeon because of Ben Carson.