So where has the libertarian Paulite vote gone?
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  So where has the libertarian Paulite vote gone?
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Author Topic: So where has the libertarian Paulite vote gone?  (Read 1386 times)
Phony Moderate
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« on: October 05, 2015, 06:18:34 AM »

Rand seems to be at 1 or 2% currently. His father received 11% of the national primary vote last time.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2015, 06:31:51 AM »

The anti-immigrant and Pat Buchanan-wing of the Paul support group is with Donald Trump and to a smaller extent Ted Cruz, the young college/high school male support is bleeding to Bernie Sanders, and the more religious Paul supporters are now with Ben Carson and Ted Cruz.
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Abraham Reagan
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2015, 06:42:24 AM »

The anti-immigrant and Pat Buchanan-wing of the Paul support group is with Donald Trump and to a smaller extent Ted Cruz, the young college/high school male support is bleeding to Bernie Sanders, and the more religious Paul supporters are now with Ben Carson and Ted Cruz.

Those must be some pretty uninformed libertarians.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2015, 06:45:22 AM »

The anti-immigrant and Pat Buchanan-wing of the Paul support group is with Donald Trump and to a smaller extent Ted Cruz, the young college/high school male support is bleeding to Bernie Sanders, and the more religious Paul supporters are now with Ben Carson and Ted Cruz.

Those must be some pretty uninformed libertarians.

Not everyone votes the way we vote. Ron Paul got a lot of support from anti-war anti-establishment types of either party. That person this election is not Rand Paul, who has cosied up to the establishment to a certain extent - it's Bernie Sanders. Sanders has a similar temperament to Ron Paul too, one that Rand does not share. Also former Paulite's have, to some extent, changed since then.
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eric82oslo
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2015, 06:45:38 AM »
« Edited: October 05, 2015, 06:48:55 AM by eric82oslo »

The easy answer: He's the illegitimate son

The more complex answer: Father Paul was so so extremist in ever freaking way, father Paul made even Ted Cruz look like a moderate! He wanted to dismantle the Federal Reserve for 's sake! Even Ted wouldn't suggest anything that ludicrous at the worst of his days. That's the problem with Rand, he's way way way way way way way too moderate for his fans' base unfortunately. Father Paul was shouting all the time, he doesn't even know what it means to speak normally. Rand on the other hand doesn't know what it means not to have an intellectual conversation. I don't know if it's humanly possible for a child to fall further from his father than Rand has to Ron, seriously. Rand is basically the anti-thesis to Ron.
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« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2015, 07:34:01 AM »

The anti-immigrant and Pat Buchanan-wing of the Paul support group is with Donald Trump and to a smaller extent Ted Cruz, the young college/high school male support is bleeding to Bernie Sanders, and the more religious Paul supporters are now with Ben Carson and Ted Cruz.

Those must be some pretty uninformed libertarians.

Remember most voters (of every candidate) are relatively uninformed compared to election nerds like ourselves.
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Suburbia
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« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2015, 07:59:10 AM »

The Paulite vote has went to Cruz and Trump. Rand has pandered to some conservative groups, and tht is why he is in the position that he is currently in. Rand needs to go more libertarian, but in a Reaganite way that will vault him to the nomination. I still think he can be a dark horse. He needs to campaign intensely in New Hampshire, Nevada, perform well in the debates. He needs to have tougher advertisements and a better campaign staff. I would say that he needs to have a powerful economic speech in October that can put him back in the polls.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2015, 10:48:36 AM »

The anti-immigrant and Pat Buchanan-wing of the Paul support group is with Donald Trump and to a smaller extent Ted Cruz, the young college/high school male support is bleeding to Bernie Sanders, and the more religious Paul supporters are now with Ben Carson and Ted Cruz.

Those must be some pretty uninformed libertarians.

Remember most voters (of every candidate) are relatively uninformed compared to election nerds like ourselves.

And Sanders appeals to a lot of the same demographic that (Ron) Paul does. Same general crowd who would be tempted to vote third-party or sit out the election otherwise. It's kind of like how Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan could find a surprising amount of common ground (within the context of American two-party politics, of course).
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#TheShadowyAbyss
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2015, 11:33:42 AM »

Libertarians never made up the bulk of Ron's following. I do not understand why people have yet to realize this. Many people who supported Ron were just fed up with both parties and liked a lot of what he said (anti-war, legalizing drugs, end the fed) and disliked Obama. Rand is still around 3 percent and that is primarily the Libertarian Paul coalition that has been very loyal. Trump has taken some of the support, along with horrendous polling, and that is it.

Essentially this.
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dudeabides
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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2015, 12:39:37 PM »

The anti-immigrant and Pat Buchanan-wing of the Paul support group is with Donald Trump and to a smaller extent Ted Cruz, the young college/high school male support is bleeding to Bernie Sanders, and the more religious Paul supporters are now with Ben Carson and Ted Cruz.

I don't believe that Ron Paul's supporters are all "anti-immigrant" and I would say that it is unlikely that young libertarian professionals who support free markets and backed Paul in 2008 and 2012 are giving to vote for someone who believes in government-intervention into the market and someone without bold policies.

My guess is that most of Paul's 2008 supporters are either backing Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, or are waiting to support Gary Johnson as the nominee of the Libertarian Party.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2015, 01:34:05 PM »

The anti-immigrant and Pat Buchanan-wing of the Paul support group is with Donald Trump and to a smaller extent Ted Cruz, the young college/high school male support is bleeding to Bernie Sanders, and the more religious Paul supporters are now with Ben Carson and Ted Cruz.

I don't believe that Ron Paul's supporters are all "anti-immigrant" and I would say that it is unlikely that young libertarian professionals who support free markets and backed Paul in 2008 and 2012 are giving to vote for someone who believes in government-intervention into the market and someone without bold policies.

My guess is that most of Paul's 2008 supporters are either backing Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, or are waiting to support Gary Johnson as the nominee of the Libertarian Party.

I didn't say all of Ron Paul's supporters are anti-immigrant. I said that there is a strong portion of his supporters that definitely subscribe to the sort of fair-trade/anti-immigrant Pat Buchanan side of paleoconservative politics, and Donald Trump subscribes to that more loyally and more fervently than Rand Paul, as does Ted Cruz on the immigration side.
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Green Line
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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2015, 02:22:26 PM »
« Edited: October 05, 2015, 02:24:51 PM by Green Line »

A lot of his Ron Paul's votes last time were just anti-Romney people voting for anyone else.  Remember in some states (like Virginia) the only people on the ballot were Romney and Paul.

Also Santorum and Gingrich dropped out long before Paul, who continued campaigning all the way through May and didn't drop out until the convention.  His vote number is artificially inflated.
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Leinad
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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2015, 08:31:27 AM »

Some are waiting for Johnson. Others are holding on.

This is basically my stage of support right now, expressed in song parody:

No matter what you say or what you do
Of everyone I'd rather vote for you
Screw those other candidates
I'll be on your team, 'til 2016


And then it's "Rand Paul" instead of "hold up," and the first part is "hold up wait a minute, all good just a year ago/Trump on my screen, and he's leading every single poll." Not sure what comes after that, but Childish Gambino-Rand Paul crossovers are harder than they look. It's an artform often tried [citation needed] but rarely mastered.

Anyway, I think that's called the "denial" stage of grief.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2015, 09:09:14 AM »

Actual ideological Libertarians have never been more than 1-2% of the electorate. Most of Ron Paul's support wasn't coming from Libertarians but from malcontents and idealists from all bents. Ron Paul 2012 was the "f**k you Mom and Dad, I'm my own man" of campaigns.

The young idealistic Paul supporters who needed a cranky, eccentric old white man as a surrogate father figure are out there Feeling The Bern because it was never about Libertarianism or Socialism to them.
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bobloblaw
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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2015, 10:33:29 AM »

Rand seems to be at 1 or 2% currently. His father received 11% of the national primary vote last time.


Most likely to Sanders
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bobloblaw
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« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2015, 10:35:26 AM »
« Edited: October 06, 2015, 10:37:25 AM by bobloblaw »

The easy answer: He's the illegitimate son

The more complex answer: Father Paul was so so extremist in ever freaking way, father Paul made even Ted Cruz look like a moderate! He wanted to dismantle the Federal Reserve for 's sake! Even Ted wouldn't suggest anything that ludicrous at the worst of his days. That's the problem with Rand, he's way way way way way way way too moderate for his fans' base unfortunately. Father Paul was shouting all the time, he doesn't even know what it means to speak normally. Rand on the other hand doesn't know what it means not to have an intellectual conversation. I don't know if it's humanly possible for a child to fall further from his father than Rand has to Ron, seriously. Rand is basically the anti-thesis to Ron.

""He wanted to dismantle the Federal Reserve for 's sake! ""

Because theyve done such a great job since 1913.

Caused the Great Depression
Caused the 1970s Inflation
Caused the Dot.com Bubble
Caused the Housing Bubble
Now with ZIRP and QE have greatly made inequality worse.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2015, 01:28:53 PM »

The easy answer: He's the illegitimate son

The more complex answer: Father Paul was so so extremist in ever freaking way, father Paul made even Ted Cruz look like a moderate! He wanted to dismantle the Federal Reserve for 's sake! Even Ted wouldn't suggest anything that ludicrous at the worst of his days. That's the problem with Rand, he's way way way way way way way too moderate for his fans' base unfortunately. Father Paul was shouting all the time, he doesn't even know what it means to speak normally. Rand on the other hand doesn't know what it means not to have an intellectual conversation. I don't know if it's humanly possible for a child to fall further from his father than Rand has to Ron, seriously. Rand is basically the anti-thesis to Ron.

""He wanted to dismantle the Federal Reserve for 's sake! ""

Because theyve done such a great job since 1913.

Caused the Great Depression
Caused the 1970s Inflation
Caused the Dot.com Bubble
Caused the Housing Bubble
Now with ZIRP and QE have greatly made inequality worse.


Right. And before a central monetary authority was created there were financial panics every 5 years. 
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YaBoyNY
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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2015, 03:36:34 PM »

The easy answer: He's the illegitimate son

The more complex answer: Father Paul was so so extremist in ever freaking way, father Paul made even Ted Cruz look like a moderate! He wanted to dismantle the Federal Reserve for 's sake! Even Ted wouldn't suggest anything that ludicrous at the worst of his days. That's the problem with Rand, he's way way way way way way way too moderate for his fans' base unfortunately. Father Paul was shouting all the time, he doesn't even know what it means to speak normally. Rand on the other hand doesn't know what it means not to have an intellectual conversation. I don't know if it's humanly possible for a child to fall further from his father than Rand has to Ron, seriously. Rand is basically the anti-thesis to Ron.

""He wanted to dismantle the Federal Reserve for 's sake! ""

Because theyve done such a great job since 1913.

Caused the Great Depression
Caused the 1970s Inflation
Caused the Dot.com Bubble
Caused the Housing Bubble
Now with ZIRP and QE have greatly made inequality worse.


Right. And before a central monetary authority was created there were financial panics every 5 years. 

It's Bobloblaw you're speaking too. He'll find a way to blame either Islam, women, liberals, socialists, or non-Americans for those financial panics.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2015, 03:41:58 PM »

Its officially disbanded and all over the place. Some, like me, still have some support for Rand Paul. Others are uninformed, gone to Bernie Sanders (traitors!!), or other Republican candidates. God help us all if some of them have actually gone to Trump. Maybe we really are like 5% of the population Sad
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#TheShadowyAbyss
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« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2015, 03:52:05 PM »
« Edited: October 06, 2015, 04:03:12 PM by LibertarianRepublican »

Its officially disbanded and all over the place. Some, like me, still have some support for Rand Paul. Others are uninformed, gone to Bernie Sanders (traitors!!), or other Republican candidates. God help us all if some of them have actually gone to Trump. Maybe we really are like 5% of the population Sad
Gallup did a survey in 2013 that shows that 22% of Americans had a libertarian view when it came to government and politics so.....
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2015, 04:01:55 PM »

Its officially disbanded and all over the place. Some, like me, still have some support for Rand Paul. Others are uninformed, gone to Bernie Sanders (traitors!!), or other Republican candidates. God help us all if some of them have actually gone to Trump. Maybe we really are like 5% of the population Sad

Pew did a survey in 2013 that shows that 22% of Americans had a libertarian view when it came to government and politics so.....

Hey, that's great. Problem: Getting all those people together towards one common goal, that is electing someone who represents them. I generally don't have high expectations (and admittedly, I do this so I am happier when results are good) so I may be underestimating our wing of politics.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2015, 04:03:35 PM »

Its officially disbanded and all over the place. Some, like me, still have some support for Rand Paul. Others are uninformed, gone to Bernie Sanders (traitors!!), or other Republican candidates. God help us all if some of them have actually gone to Trump. Maybe we really are like 5% of the population Sad

Pew did a survey in 2013 that shows that 22% of Americans had a libertarian view when it came to government and politics so.....

But I'm going to wager that those same people want social security, medicare, farm programs, police department, and every other government program instituted in the last century.
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