Do allied firebombings during WWII constitute war crimes?
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  Do allied firebombings during WWII constitute war crimes?
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Question: Do allied firebombings during WWII constitute war crimes?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Total Voters: 64

Author Topic: Do allied firebombings during WWII constitute war crimes?  (Read 6390 times)
Thunderbird is the word
Zen Lunatic
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« on: October 08, 2015, 11:22:06 PM »

vote!
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Computer89
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2015, 05:47:23 PM »

no
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2015, 05:57:14 PM »

Sure. They were also strategically idiotic and entirely counterproductive.
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Lumine
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2015, 06:54:16 PM »

In my opinion, yes. That the Axis Powers were almost cartoonishly evil does not and should not excuse war crimes committed by the Allies.
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Computer89
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2015, 07:27:06 PM »

Nazis werent prosecuted for the blitz so there was no hypocricy in the War Crimes trial in 1945 and 1946
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2015, 10:24:41 PM »

Incidentally, one reason Dönitz got a light sentence was the Allies engaged in unrestricted submarine warfare as well.
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Murica!
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2015, 10:41:50 PM »

No, killing fascists is not a crime.
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SWE
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2015, 08:24:52 AM »

No, killing fascists is not a crime.
Every civilian of an axis country, of course, being a fascist.
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Murica!
whyshouldigiveyoumyname?
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2015, 05:45:17 AM »

No, killing fascists is not a crime.
Every civilian of an axis country, of course, being a fascist.
If one is not actively opposing fascism then one deserve death the same as any war criminal.
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Intell
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2015, 07:21:18 AM »

No, killing fascists is not a crime.
Every civilian of an axis country, of course, being a fascist.
If one is not actively opposing fascism then one deserve death the same as any war criminal.

Whatever.
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politicus
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2015, 07:29:37 AM »

No, killing fascists is not a crime.
Every civilian of an axis country, of course, being a fascist.
If one is not actively opposing fascism then one deserve death the same as any war criminal.

An absurd statement. How should, say, German children have "opposed fascism"?
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YaBoyNY
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2015, 07:36:27 AM »

No, killing fascists is not a crime.
Every civilian of an axis country, of course, being a fascist.
If one is not actively opposing fascism then one deserve death the same as any war criminal.

An absurd statement. How should, say, German children have "opposed fascism"?

By roasting alive in Allied firebombings of course.
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Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy
Alex
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2015, 08:43:33 AM »
« Edited: October 13, 2015, 08:47:49 AM by Alex 🍉🚎🔱 »

Lean no.  Suppose we had developed nuclear bombs in 1942.  I would probably be pretty okay with using them on the 10 largest German cities the day after the CIA gave me irrefutable evidence of the Holocaust.
WTF
You are aware that it would constitute a genocide against the Germans, right?
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2015, 09:59:07 AM »

No. We forget just how scattershot war tended to be before we had modern technology. This is rearview-mirror moralizing and doesn't hold up to me at all. There's a huge difference between violations of the geneva conventions like the treatment of prisoners of war, and the mass bombing raids that were commonplace.
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Vosem
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2015, 10:55:44 AM »

While I don't think the average German citizen deserved to die for not actively risking their lives and families to "oppose fascism" (which is an absurd and genocidal stance to take), I do think the goal of defeating fascism, or even just demoralizing it, was important enough to justify the costs.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2015, 11:26:24 AM »

The thing you all need to understand about this particular bombing strategy is that the whole point was to kill large numbers of civilians (the theory advanced was that this would lead to a collapse in morale and so hasten the end of the war, which was... remarkable... given that its principle advocates were senior bods in the RAF who had surely noted that this was not what had happened when British cities were subjected to intensive bombing) and that it was a complete failure in all respects other than the body count, actually having the opposite effect to what was intended.

Additionally, just because one side commits atrocities does not negate the atrocities (which may well have been considerably worse, as they were in this instance) committed by the other. There is no need to defend appalling actions committed seventy years ago out of nervousness as to what the implications of doing so might be.
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dead0man
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2015, 12:23:16 PM »

It's tough.  Clearly the factory making the bearings that go into engines that go into supply trucks is a target, even if it's nowhere near a military base, or the front lines.  Clearly the transportation hubs are targets.  Are the people and their homes that work at these places and will get to work repairing them the next day targets?  I can see both sides of that argument.  Lean towards no, but it's hard for me sitting here in 2015 to judge the people that made the decision.
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🦀🎂🦀🎂
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2015, 12:48:21 PM »

Yes. And it should be noted that the Americans to their credit recognised that the RAF's bombing of civilians in Germany was ineffectual and motivated more out of spite; but failed to take this into account in the Pacific theatre for a variety of reasons.

I find it hard not to consider them war crimes. I'm not an cultural relativist, so I'm not going to say people are "excused" because different times. The deliberate targeting of civilians is always wrong, under both deontological and utilitarian grounds; no matter if it's William the Conquerer, Harry Truman or Bashar Al-Assad doing the deed.
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dead0man
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2015, 01:13:17 PM »

Is a civilian building a tank a target?  What if he's just the janitor at the tank factory?  What if he's installing toilets on the Death Star?


Death Star Contractors speech from Clerks
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Green Line
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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2015, 01:15:00 PM »

It is wrong to target civilians no matter if they're on the "bad" side or not.  I understand the reasoning for doing it at the time, but it costed the lives of thousands of airmen and there wasn't much strategic benefit to it.  Its hard for me to judge the decisions of those back in WWII because it was an unprecedented war and was dragging on so the allies were understandably looking for any way to gain advantage.  Lean yes though.
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ingemann
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2015, 02:52:37 PM »

No, killing fascists is not a crime.

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DavidB.
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2015, 10:04:01 PM »

what are you trying to say with this picture...?
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ingemann
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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2015, 04:53:30 AM »

what are you trying to say with this picture...?

I'm illustrating what kind of things people support, when they mindless support making civilian population a primary target, I could have shown the picture of a North Ossetian School and the dead children there instead, but the stupidity of Murica!'s post indicated that he would be even less likely to get that point.

I'm accept that collateral damage happens in war, that's a sad fact in life, but there's a major difference in bombing military targets with civilian collateral damage and target civilians.
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RFayette
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« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2015, 03:55:50 PM »

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NeverAgain
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« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2015, 07:44:08 PM »

Yes (Not a believer in "c**ntry alwuyz du writ"
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