Iran tests new precision-guided ballistic missile

[Taco Truck 🚚]

washingtontimes.com

Oh, god no.  Please.  Give us a real source.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

There have been many reports that the US told Israel it would shoot down the planes if Israel launched a military strike against Iran.

Post a link please.

They've denied it, but we do know that Netanyahu abruptly scrubbed a planned military operation at the last minute, so I find it believable.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/1/report-obama-threatened-shoot-down-israeli-warplan/?page=all

If that was true why would Netanyahu or one of his allies not come out with it?  We already know he has no problem poking the administration and the Republicans would jump all over this if he did

He still has to deal with this administration for 16 more months, and there's a lot of bells that a pissed-off Obama could ring that can't be unrung.

[Cory]

Point Of Order: The nuclear deal with Iran is just that, a specific deal concerning their nuclear program. This is not a general rapprochement and not ever issue regarding Iran can be viewed in the context of this deal.

This deal literally has nothing to do with Iran exercising it's right to research and develop weapons systems.

And yes, ballistic missiles can be used with conventional warheads, and are more often then not.

As for Rubio Republican and the ridiculous allegations, do you have a source for this that isn't a right-wing blog and is taken seriously as a publication? Let me guess, they're all in on the "cover up"?

[bertramhall]

Nothing special. It`s a typical state which has its national security policy.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Point Of Order: The nuclear deal with Iran is just that, a specific deal concerning their nuclear program. This is not a general rapprochement and not ever issue regarding Iran can be viewed in the context of this deal.

This deal literally has nothing to do with Iran exercising it's right to research and develop weapons systems.

And yes, ballistic missiles can be used with conventional warheads, and are more often then not.

As for Rubio Republican and the ridiculous allegations, do you have a source for this that isn't a right-wing blog and is taken seriously as a publication? Let me guess, they're all in on the "cover up"?

Aren't missiles with nuclear warhead capacity covered explicitly by the UN Resolution in question?

[SATW]

hahahahahahaha. I love it. U.S. Foreign policy helps overthrow Mosadegh in the 50's, and then lets the Shah fall in the '70s...yet iran being run by mental nut cases is the Jews fault. Get a grip on reality.

This is a uniquely American and British problem.

Once again, ignoring Europe's role in the overthrow of the Iranian government.  Seriously, you live in Europe.  Talk to the European leaders about your perceived problems.  Quit crying to the US every time you stub your toe.  It's been decades.  Time to grow up.

1. I'm American, so no...I don't live in Europe (and even if you are going by my avatar...I don't live in Israel, which is also not in Europe).
2. "Preceived Problems"? You honestly have to be a certain type of naive to believe Iran is not dangerous.
3. You are, along with Green Line, the one who needs to grow up. America is the greatest country in the world, far and above, but that does not mean it cannot be criticized. The same goes for Israel (before you falsely accuse me of being an Israel-firster).

[Taco Truck 🚚]

hahahahahahaha. I love it. U.S. Foreign policy helps overthrow Mosadegh in the 50's, and then lets the Shah fall in the '70s...yet iran being run by mental nut cases is the Jews fault. Get a grip on reality.

Once again, ignoring Europe's role in the overthrow of the Iranian government.

1. I'm American, so no...I don't live in Europe (and even if you are going by my avatar...I don't live in Israel, which is also not in Europe).

Doesn't matter who you are or where you live Europe was involved in the Iranian overthrow.

2. "Preceived Problems"? You honestly have to be a certain type of naive to believe Iran is not dangerous.

A smoke detector with a weak battery is "dangerous."  That doesn't mean you launch a military attack on it.  You really do see the world in black and white... that's dangerous.

3. You are, along with Green Line, the one who needs to grow up. America is the greatest country in the world, far and above, but that does not mean it cannot be criticized.

We've been giving Israel more money than any other country for decades.  If Israel has criticism of us what about subSaharan Africa?!  $3 billion dollars of tax payer money a year!  And that buys us some constructive criticism?!  I know you're Jewish but... that's not the way Christmas works.

[SATW]

You are right, it was also the UK who was heavily involved in the overthrow, but that doesn't let the U.S. off the hook, either.

Also, I do not see the world in black and white..you, however, clearly do. This idea that Iran is not a threat to peace and stability across the world is ridiculous. They are definitely more dangerous then "a smoke detector with a weak battery." You are proving my point that you are extremely naive on Iran. Also, I have not once advocated for military action or war with Iran.

The policy of using foreign aid as a leash on American allies needs to end. Our allies should not be treated like puppies that need to be put in line. Not only that, if you have issues with Israeli criticism of President Obama's Anti-Israel stances then you surely also have a problem with allies like Saudi Arabia and Egypt burning American flags (and in the case of Saudi Arabia...potentially being a massive funder of ISIS).

I would say those two are much more problematic then Israeli criticism, which comes in a legitimate, democratic forum. But, it seems like you are someone who thinks any dissent should be punished, so it's like arguing with a fascist.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Also, I do not see the world in black and white..you, however, clearly do. This idea that Iran is not a threat to peace and stability across the world is ridiculous.

Who on this forum has ever said Iran is not a threat to peace and stability?

The policy of using foreign aid as a leash on American allies needs to end.

Translation:  "Thank you American taxpayer for $3 Trillion a year"

Not only that, if you have issues with Israeli criticism of President Obama's Anti-Israel stances...

If we did a global poll of world citizens only a lunatic minority would consider President Obama "anti-Israel."  Get a grip.

But, it seems like you are someone who thinks any dissent should be punished, so it's like arguing with a fascist.

Wow.  Disgree with a Jew and you are Hitler.  No, not crazy at all.  Perfectly well reasoned conclusion.

[OSR stands with Israel]

You are right, it was also the UK who was heavily involved in the overthrow, but that doesn't let the U.S. off the hook, either.

Also, I do not see the world in black and white..you, however, clearly do. This idea that Iran is not a threat to peace and stability across the world is ridiculous. They are definitely more dangerous then "a smoke detector with a weak battery." You are proving my point that you are extremely naive on Iran. Also, I have not once advocated for military action or war with Iran.

The policy of using foreign aid as a leash on American allies needs to end. Our allies should not be treated like puppies that need to be put in line. Not only that, if you have issues with Israeli criticism of President Obama's Anti-Israel stances then you surely also have a problem with allies like Saudi Arabia and Egypt burning American flags (and in the case of Saudi Arabia...potentially being a massive funder of ISIS).

I would say those two are much more problematic then Israeli criticism, which comes in a legitimate, democratic forum. But, it seems like you are someone who thinks any dissent should be punished, so it's like arguing with a fascist.

I consider Iran as a threat but not imminent, the imminent threat is ISIS who is far more evil then Iran or Assad and we need to do what ever it takes to beat them just like we allied with the USSR(who was a hundred times worse then Iran or Assad) to defeat the Nazis.

If we dont want to ally with either Russia's puppet Assad or Iran to defeat ISIS, the US needs to let the Jews and Kurds immigrate here freely with no restrictions(but allow no else from that region),  than get the heck out of the middle east and let them deal with their own problems.

I prefer Option 2 but since that wont happen because Leftists, the Tea Party, and the Neo Cons would oppose it as much as possible because option 2 would not be PC, would stop perpetual war in the region and would upset the nativists which make Option 1 the only realistic option.

[Ebsy]

Breaking news: Ballistic Missiles not actually illegal to develop/use.

[MalaspinaGold]

Not that I want to wade into this quagmire, but since Ray has been dropping his inane conspiracy theories again:
http://forward.com/opinion/321927/an-alternative-vision-of-israeli-security/?attribution=author-article-listing-3-img

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Not that I want to wade into this quagmire, but since Ray has been dropping his inane conspiracy theories again:
http://forward.com/opinion/321927/an-alternative-vision-of-israeli-security/?attribution=author-article-listing-3-img

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Thank you.

We should set a few other things straight.

1.  There is no one on this forum that hates Jews or wants to see any harm come to any Jew anywhere on the planet simply because they are a Jew.  Making this hysterical claim only serves to alienate people.

2.  There is no one on this forum that wants to see the state of Israel attacked and/or destroyed.  Making this hysterical claim only serves to alienate people.

3.  President Obama is not "antiIsrael".  Making this hysterical claim only serves to alienate people.

4.  Israel over the decades has received a ludicrous amount of cash and moral support from the US taxpayer way out of proportion to anything any other country on the planet has received and certainly way out of proportion to anything Israel has ever done for the United States.  And certainly way out of proportion to what Israel "deserves" or is "owed."

5.  Follow up to point 4.  The United States along with help from European forces stopped the Holocaust.  There are plenty of other massacres that occurred on this planet where the United States didn't even send a get well soon card.

6.  There are millions of people on this planet who went through some really bad stuff during the twentieth century that have never received $2.9 billion a year from the US Tax payer and if they had would be very grateful to President Obama and not insult him in his own home.  Frankly even without the $2.9 billion they are respectful to the guy no matter where they encounter him.

And in conclusion I just want to address the bizarre statement in another thread that the United States is somehow beholden to Israel because of the 1953 Iranian coup and because the United States "allowed" the Shah to be toppled.  The Shah was an oppressive dictator.  We are in no way obligated to get in bed and stay in bed with brutal dictators just to make Israel happy.  The Iranian people have a right to self determination.  If they picked Khomeini and didn't realize how bad he was that's not the United States' fault.  Self determination means being free to make your own mistakes.  I love how certain Jews on this forum argue Jews need a homeland so they can have self determination but criticize everyone else who wants to give Iranians the same thing... Well not even the same thing.  We allow Israel to possess nuclear weapons and deny the same to Iranians.  There are a little over 6 million Jews in Israel...  There are 80 million Iranians.  Who's self determination should we cater to if we are forced to pick?  I don't want anyone attacking anyone else in the middle east.  But we need to stop talking like 6 million Jews are more important than 80 million Iranians.

And I leave you all with this...

Early in the twentieth century the King of Belgium ruled over Congo and killed HALF the population.  Millions more Congolese died under the rule of Leopold II of Belgium than Jews died in the Holocaust.  The Congolese holocaust is never even mentioned in textbooks and yet we send $2.9 billion a year to Israel.  Are people beginning to see why American tax payers are getting a little fed up with the state of affairs?

And by the way the millions of Congolese that died don't include all the ones that had their hands chopped off...

[Green Line]

Not that I want to wade into this quagmire, but since Ray has been dropping his inane conspiracy theories again:
http://forward.com/opinion/321927/an-alternative-vision-of-israeli-security/?attribution=author-article-listing-3-img

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Thank you.

We should set a few other things straight.

1.  There is no one on this forum that hates Jews or wants to see any harm come to any Jew anywhere on the planet simply because they are a Jew.  Making this hysterical claim only serves to alienate people.

2.  There is no one on this forum that wants to see the state of Israel attacked and/or destroyed.  Making this hysterical claim only serves to alienate people.

3.  President Obama is not "antiIsrael".  Making this hysterical claim only serves to alienate people.

4.  Israel over the decades has received a ludicrous amount of cash and moral support from the US taxpayer way out of proportion to anything any other country on the planet has received and certainly way out of proportion to anything Israel has ever done for the United States.  And certainly way out of proportion to what Israel "deserves" or is "owed."

5.  Follow up to point 4.  The United States along with help from European forces stopped the Holocaust.  There are plenty of other massacres that occurred on this planet where the United States didn't even send a get well soon card.

6.  There are millions of people on this planet who went through some really bad stuff during the twentieth century that have never received $2.9 billion a year from the US Tax payer and if they had would be very grateful to President Obama and not insult him in his own home.  Frankly even without the $2.9 billion they are respectful to the guy no matter where they encounter him.

And in conclusion I just want to address the bizarre statement in another thread that the United States is somehow beholden to Israel because of the 1953 Iranian coup and because the United States "allowed" the Shah to be toppled.  The Shah was an oppressive dictator.  We are in no way obligated to get in bed and stay in bed with brutal dictators just to make Israel happy.  The Iranian people have a right to self determination.  If they picked Khomeini and didn't realize how bad he was that's not the United States' fault.  Self determination means being free to make your own mistakes.  I love how certain Jews on this forum argue Jews need a homeland so they can have self determination but criticize everyone else who wants to give Iranians the same thing... Well not even the same thing.  We allow Israel to possess nuclear weapons and deny the same to Iranians.  There are a little over 6 million Jews in Israel...  There are 80 million Iranians.  Who's self determination should we cater to if we are forced to pick?  I don't want anyone attacking anyone else in the middle east.  But we need to stop talking like 6 million Jews are more important than 80 million Iranians.

And I leave you all with this...

Early in the twentieth century the King of Belgium ruled over Congo and killed HALF the population.  Millions more Congolese died under the rule of Leopold II of Belgium than Jews died in the Holocaust.  The Congolese holocaust is never even mentioned in textbooks and yet we send $2.9 billion a year to Israel.  Are people beginning to see why American tax payers are getting a little fed up with the state of affairs?

And by the way the millions of Congolese that died don't include all the ones that had their hands chopped off...

Stop it, youre making too much sense for this thread.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Not that I want to wade into this quagmire, but since Ray has been dropping his inane conspiracy theories again:
http://forward.com/opinion/321927/an-alternative-vision-of-israeli-security/?attribution=author-article-listing-3-img

You must be logged in to read this quote.

While it's possible this is true (it's from an editorial, although Barak's comments are out there if not 100% reliable) what are your thoughts on Article 10, Annex III, which commits the US to helping Iran fend off threats to its nuclear program?

[SATW]

Making too much sense? Please grow up. Nothing anyone, from either side, has said in this thread is fact. Yet, the sheer arrogance displayed by a few of you is truly mind blowing.

It is the definition of antisemitism to try neuter the effects of the holocaust. I don't really care how you counter this or how butthurt you get over it.

Of course the holocaust is not the only tragic genocide in human history. There have been many more genocides in the past and, sadly, in the present going on. (Armenian Genocide, Rwandan Genocide, etc...)

But, like all of those groups, we, as Jews, have a damn right to talk about it. But, again, everything goes back to us evil Jews with the money. It's always about the money with people like you. A success of a Jew is not directly correlated to the suffering of others. Sorry, you antisemite, you do not get to make false and untrue correlations like this.

- Israel receiving foreign aid did not prevent international recognition of the Armenian genocide; international, including Israel, ignorance has.
- Israel receiving foreign aid did not cause the Rwandan genocide to occur. International ignorance, again Israel included, did.
- Israel receiving foreign aid did not cause Apartheid South Africa to remain in power for so long. International ignorance, once again including Israel, did.
- Israel receiving foreign aid did not cause the genocide of the Congolese...I'm sure you get my point by now.

I don't try and put Israel on some ridiculous pedestal. But I will call out antisemitism when I see it. And Schadenfreude, you are an antisemite. Your logical fallacies and strawman arguments don't fly with me. I'm sure if flies with the fascist right and the academic far-left, but I am neither.

Also, your bizarre and borderline insane ranting on the 1953 coup is deliciously pathetic. The U.S. helped put the Shah in POWER, therefore when he is allowed to fall and psychopaths replace him...it is not a stretch to claim that the U.S.  has some responsibility in it. Same goes for Europe.

Your slandering of Israel and Europe is adorable because you refuse to ever admit America is wrong. I love America, it's my home...but I can admit when we have made mistakes. The 1953 coup was a mistake and a black stain on the American legacy.

Israel is the Jewish homeland, and I have close ties to it, but I can admit when it is wrong. The Sabra and Shatila massacre was a mistake and a black stain on the Israeli legacy.

But, I'm done arguing with someone who is clearly going to continue making ridiculous comparisons and statements.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Also, the US did not "stop the holocaust". The Allies stopped the regime perpetrating it, thus ending it, for separate reasons. The claim of anything else is a lie.

And I am SO sick and tired of people who think bringing up other "obscure genocides" as a gotcha to Jews is some sort of legitimate point. Jews aren't the ones keeping the Congolese genocide from people's minds - it's the textbook companies making sure their books are palatable to a widely white audience. And none of that changes the fact that a full third of the world's Jews were wiped out in less than ten years. Get out of here with that Oppression Olympics BS.

[SATW]

Also, the US did not "stop the holocaust". The Allies stopped the regime perpetrating it, thus ending it, for separate reasons. The claim of anything else is a lie.

And I am SO sick and tired of people who think bringing up other "obscure genocides" as a gotcha to Jews is some sort of legitimate point. Jews aren't the ones keeping the Congolese genocide from people's minds - it's the textbook companies making sure their books are palatable to a widely white audience. And none of that changes the fact that a full third of the world's Jews were wiped out in less than ten years. Get out of here with that Oppression Olympics BS.

Amen. Schadenfreude is just proving that he's an antisemite.

[Green Line]

Nothing Schadenfreude has posted is anti-semetic. Questioning the unflinching and uneven US support for Israel is not anti-jewish. As someone who supports Israel and thinks it is a great country you guys are doing a terrible pr job for it. Calling people anti-semetic is pathetic and only stifles legitimate debate

[Taco Truck 🚚]

And I am SO sick and tired of people who think bringing up other "obscure genocides" as a gotcha to Jews is some sort of legitimate point.

10 million Africans murdered is "obscure".  The language you use to talk about non Jews...

Also, the US did not "stop the holocaust". The Allies stopped the regime perpetrating it, thus ending it, for separate reasons. The claim of anything else is a lie.

Amen. Schadenfreude is just proving that he's an antisemite.

Wow.  "Antisemite" because you want to treat Jews as equals of all people.  Amazing.

And what troops did the United States send to Congo to stop the even bigger genocide?  I am not talking about "stopping the holocaust" in absolute terms.  I'm talking about "stopping the holocaust" relative to "stopping every other holocaust."

Any sane objective person will tell you relative to every other aggrieved group the United States has done infinitely more for Israel than a long list of other people who were massacred.  Money is finite.  Every group whether they be black, native American, senior citizens, college students, corporations (they are people after all), Planned Parenthood, etc. has to justify their request relative to everyone else asking for money.  That is not a feature that is peculiar to Jews.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Nothing Schadenfreude has posted is anti-semetic. Questioning the unflinching and uneven US support for Israel is not anti-jewish. As someone who supports Israel and thinks it is a great country you guys are doing a terrible pr job for it. Calling people anti-semetic is pathetic and only stifles legitimate debate

Yeah.  The good thing about it is I know a lot of Jewish people and they are very kind warm open giving people.  Frankly my feelings on the situation are probably closer to some of Moderate Hero Republican's.  I think Europe and the United States should open their doors and encourage Jewish emigration from Israel to their lands and provide financial support to have them resettled within all of our borders.  The people who wish to stay in Israel may, but they will be given a deadline to become self sufficient.

An alternative is the whole world gets together and agrees on a partitioning of the land in Palestine and some kind of global fund to compensate Palestinians.  Then we can have a UN force in place to implement the plan and keep stability for a set number of years.  We can also turn Jerusalem into an international city or some kind of demilitarized zone or neutral ground.

Bottom line is this situation by any objective measure has taken a disproportionate amount of time, money, and energy.  It is ludicrous that the world can't sort this out after decades.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Also, your bizarre and borderline insane ranting on the 1953 coup is deliciously pathetic. The U.S. helped put the Shah in POWER, therefore when he is allowed to fall and psychopaths replace him...it is not a stretch to claim that the U.S.  has some responsibility in it. Same goes for Europe.

Well good luck telling anyone in Europe or anywhere else in the world we are beholden to Israel and must give them $3 Billion/yr and our vote on the security council in perpetuity because we allowed a dictator's people to rise up against him almost 40 years ago.

It's amazing how you call the majority of the world's citizens "bizarre," "borderline insane," "deliciously pathetic," and "antisemites".  I think you should read my posts, look at how voting typically goes at the UN and reexamine your opinions.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

A country that has a history of being attacked and meddled with by foreign powers for 100+ years, is keeping its armed forces updated & modernized, like virtually every other independent country on the face of the Earth has the right to do?



Horrifying. Just horrifying, I tell you.

[MalaspinaGold]

Not that I want to wade into this quagmire, but since Ray has been dropping his inane conspiracy theories again:
http://forward.com/opinion/321927/an-alternative-vision-of-israeli-security/?attribution=author-article-listing-3-img

You must be logged in to read this quote.

While it's possible this is true (it's from an editorial, although Barak's comments are out there if not 100% reliable) what are your thoughts on Article 10, Annex III, which commits the US to helping Iran fend off threats to its nuclear program?

That's not what Article 10 Annex III says, just so you know.

And I am SO sick and tired of people who think bringing up other "obscure genocides" as a gotcha to Jews is some sort of legitimate point.

10 million Africans murdered is "obscure".  The language you use to talk about non Jews...

Also, the US did not "stop the holocaust". The Allies stopped the regime perpetrating it, thus ending it, for separate reasons. The claim of anything else is a lie.

Amen. Schadenfreude is just proving that he's an antisemite.

Wow.  "Antisemite" because you want to treat Jews as equals of all people.  Amazing.

And what troops did the United States send to Congo to stop the even bigger genocide?  I am not talking about "stopping the holocaust" in absolute terms.  I'm talking about "stopping the holocaust" relative to "stopping every other holocaust."

Any sane objective person will tell you relative to every other aggrieved group the United States has done infinitely more for Israel than a long list of other people who were massacred.  Money is finite.  Every group whether they be black, native American, senior citizens, college students, corporations (they are people after all), Planned Parenthood, etc. has to justify their request relative to everyone else asking for money.  That is not a feature that is peculiar to Jews.

I mean, I'm not a Stalinist hack like TNF, but the US didn't end the Holocaust even accidentally. All the major death camps were liberated by the Soviets.

The irony is that I agree with DavidB on the reason why foreign aid should be ended (though I obviously think it should happen on a faster timetable than DavidB). That being said, you really aren't helping your case.

[DavidB.]

The irony is that I agree with DavidB on the reason why DavidB should be ended (though I obviously think it should happen on a faster timetable than DavidB). That being said, you really aren't helping your case.

On the reason why I should be "ended"...? And also on a fast timetable...? That's not so nice You're probably talking about US foreign aid to Israel and I'm not sure whether you really want a faster timetable than I do, but that's probably a bit too specific a discussion for this thread - my main point is that this decision should ideally be made in Jerusalem, not in Washington.