transgender individuals in the girls HS locker room?

[Famous Mortimer]

Yes they will say "man". They won't say "a penis flashed me" as you seem to think genitals are synonyms with people. I'm surprised you didn't describe a group of vaginas being flashed and having to talk to a policepenis.

Actually, "a penis flashed me" would be the PC thing to say. Assuming that because someone has a penis they are a man is now considered very offensive.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

WillipsBrighton, as always, is adept at building strawmen. Or should I say strawpenis.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Must be a weird mindset to reduce everyone you meet to their disembodied genitals, Schadenfreude. I'm afraid I don't quite follow your train of thought with the whole HiV analogy (accepting trans people is equivalent to The Scramble for Africa?), although at a guess that train has long since derailed.

@shua, I was talking about nude showers, which is a different kettle of fish. If people are wearing consumes then I see no reason to worry, or even bother segregating the genders at all (providing of course there are appropriate private stalls for the shy)

young boys will like to try to peek in the stalls when given the opportunity to see the mysterious other.  no, it is best to have separate rooms altogether.

societies have cared about gender in ways that are not completely identical to sex for ages. and they found ways to carve out spaces for this to fit this around the dominant gender roles that were related to sex.  What's new here I think comes out of both a politicization of gender under the idea of rights and a real contestation over the relationship between biology and identity (both of which claiming ultimate importance), so that transgenderism shakes ideas about gender to the very root in a way that it hasn't before.

[Figueira]

That solution is, of course,

Compulsory group showers are weird and creepy relics that should be phased out

(normal).

The more I think about it, the more I agree with this. No one should be forced to change/shower in front of anyone regardless of sex or gender.

[muon2]

One of the issues that is sometimes overlooked is the intrinsic confusion older Americans have with the sex vs gender distinction. The confusion exists since for most born in the previous century sex and gender were synonymous. Consider the definitions from Websters Deluxe Unabridged Dictionary (2nd Ed, 1979).

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Note that the common usage of sex in 1979 referred to both the biological (def 1) and character (def 2) and gender was a colloquial alternative. This combined usage would spill over to areas like electronics where the gender of a connector was based on its relation to the equivalent sex. Current usage of gender in the context of transgender (which didn't have an entry in among the over 2000 pages in the 1979 dictionary) would be seen back then moving it exclusively towards definition 2 of sex.

Of course words in a language change meaning over time - that's part of what defines a living language. But that doesn't change people who grew up learning one meaning for a word then come to hear a nuanced different meaning much later in life. It can take a lot of time for enough of the population to get used to changed meanings. Until then I expect cognitive clashes over sex vs gender to continue.

[ingemann]

So                            BAN IT


I knew we would end up with someone taking that POV.

What aspect of what I was saying called for this response?

The idea that public showers should be phased out. I don't say iit's necessary a wrong point, I personally disagree, but that doesn't make it necessary wrong. But there's a strong tendency in this victimisation cult we have developed, that we alway end up abolising things, when someone complain, because it's always the easiest solution, which make us avoid dealing with complex issues. I think that people need to get some thicker skin.

[Figueira]

So                            BAN IT


I knew we would end up with someone taking that POV.

What aspect of what I was saying called for this response?

The idea that public showers should be phased out. I don't say iit's necessary a wrong point, I personally disagree, but that doesn't make it necessary wrong. But there's a strong tendency in this victimisation cult we have developed, that we alway end up abolising things, when someone complain, because it's always the easiest solution, which make us avoid dealing with complex issues. I think that people need to get some thicker skin.

If you're advocating mandatory public showers, aren't you advocating banning private showers?

[Famous Mortimer]

I went to three different high schools. All of them had showers. None of them were EVER used. It was my understanding that that was the case for most people in high school.