Austrian Elections & Politics 2.0 (Presidential runoff re-vote: 4 Dec. 2016)

[Omega21]

What are the Candidates stances on immigration? (Middle east/Africa) immigrants that are currently enetering the EU.

[Omega21]

Maybe the ovp policy is best, or maybe a more moderate fpo policy..

After all the new year rapes and all, i think tougher measures are needed, plus giving away Austrian tax payers money to anyone thah comes left and right is absurd.

Thanks for the info btw

[Omega21]

"enemy of the state and a threat to Austrian citizens"

this ... is pretty bad rhetoric, even for the FPO

I wouldn't say so. Both Merkel and Faymann value immigrants more than their own people, giving away Austrian Tax payers money to anyone that comes from countries in which there is no war should be a Criminal offence.

Austrians work hard for their country to prosper and have a good social state, not so anyone could come and lay on their ass and get free money, this is not sustainable in the slightest.

Especially people without any Western values, who live by the Quran and Sharia, if you dont want to integrate 100% then, Raus.

A goverment's first responsibility is it's own people (people born in the country and people who immigrated legally as workers/professionals or such).


Btw, Tender

Why do you like VdB if he supports mass immigration without a cap plus giving them all of the goodies such as welfare, when you dont support those things

[Omega21]

More the "enemy of the state" rhetoric tbh which is ... not really the sort of thing mature democratic parties should be throwing around. I dunno, maybe it comes across better in German?

He could have said it a bit better, I agree...

But still doesn't mean it's not true, he is doing things which are completely contrary to the will of the people, polls show that. In simple terms he is leading the country by his own vision, regardless of what the people want..

I wonder what would be the outcome of a refferendum like "Should we accept any more Asylum requests", but I guess it would not come out to good for the Spo and Greens.

[Omega21]

Yeah I was looking up Gudenuses past claims a few days back and he is "a bit" extreme. Although I don't think it's as much as his Dad.
 
In the end it's a shame that the Right wing are the only ones who have balls to completely close the border. I like it that the SPO sh**t their pants in the recent past, that was the only way they would implement a 37.5k ceiling.

And I really hate it when Strache was calling for closure of borders and fences he was called a Xenophobe, but when Faymann became scared because SPO's approval rating had fallen seriously and he declares a Upper-Limit and tightens up the border it's normal and it's called a good step from the SPOVP coallition.

Must admit, Strache was saying these thing long before anyone in the Goverment mentioned anything.

[Omega21]

As time is passing by and all the new cases pop-up I realize I would rather vote for the Austrian Trump than for Vdb, as his policy is basically: Be nice, give them our money, you will get free knives in return!

And that by im referencing to the Swedish Social worker who was killed by a Migrant Kid yesterday.



Vdb=Cultural suicide, also suicide in every other regard.

[Omega21]

Not Moser, not Gudenus, not Stenzel ...

The FPÖ officially nominated Norbert Hofer (44) as their Presidential candidate today.

More tomorrow.

How "right" is he, In comparison to Gudenus for example?

[Omega21]

Next Tuesday, STATISTICS Austria will release the preliminary population numbers for Jan. 1, 2016 and it will likely show that Austria's population has grown by 100.000-120.000 last year.

From 8.58 million to ~8.70 million people.

That's an increase of 1.1-1.3% (all-time growth record).

Austria is not only a magnet for asylum seekers from all over the world, but there's also a huge surplus of citizens from other EU countries that are moving here (especially Germans and Eastern Europeans). Plus, there's also a small natural surplus (more births than deaths) which is getting bigger and bigger these days thanks to African/Middle-Eastern immigrant women with high fertility.

Interesting side fact: Vienna has likely grown by about 40.000 people last year (+2.2%), Graz by 6.000 people (+2%) and Innsbruck even had 3% growth based on their city website (+4.000 people).

Numbers are out:

+115.000 people (+1.34%)

Biggest growth since WW2.

Vienna has grown by 43.000 people (+2.4%) and now has 1.841.000 people.

The number of Austrian citizens declined by 6.000 people, the number of foreigners increased by 121.000

Biggest migration gains by country:

+22.000 Syria
+18.000 Afghanistan
+10.000 Iraq
+10.000 Romania
+  9.000 Hungary
+  6.000 Germany
+  4.000 Croatia
+  3.000 Poland
+  3.000 Slovakia
+  3.000 Iran

Holy sh**t man, why are you Austrians so passive while this is happening, how can someone think it's good to receive 50+k Middle Eastern migrants (a lot of them are uneducated, economic migrants rather than war refugees, and they have very little understanding of European culture Cough*Mass Rape Cough* ).

I don't think the European migrants are a problem like Croats or Germans since integration is minimal, even from Less-developet (as compared to Germany/Austria) countries like Croatia, religion is not the Law and people have been influenced heavily by Western media/way of life ever since the War.

I hope you guys save Austria somehow, as I wouldn't like to see such a beutiful place being overrun by Ghettos.

[Omega21]

Holy sh**t man, why are you Austrians so passive while this is happening, how can someone think it's good to receive 50+k Middle Eastern migrants (a lot of them are uneducated, economic migrants rather than war refugees, and they have very little understanding of European culture Cough*Mass Rape Cough* ).

I don't think the European migrants are a problem like Croats or Germans since integration is minimal, even from Less-developet (as compared to Germany/Austria) countries like Croatia, religion is not the Law and people have been influenced heavily by Western media/way of life ever since the War.

I hope you guys save Austria somehow, as I wouldn't like to see such a beutiful place being overrun by Ghettos.

Of course you're right, but saying this will instantly make you a pariah on this forum, because people don't like to hear this

As for Brigittenau, Vienna's 20th district, my aunt and uncle lived there. I've been there quite often. When my aunt was repeatedly called a whore by "teenage guys" for walking on the street (without her husband) wearing a skirt, however, they considered it time to move to Burgenland.

For me it would be a very nice neighborhood to live in (excellent location, relatively affordable rents for Vienna), but I'm a single male in my twenties, so that doesn't say much...

And might i guess that these teenagers are uneducated African/Middle-Eastern migrants with probably a Muslim background, seeing as only hardcore muslims are against such things?

I couldn't care less what I'm being called by people who think the best thing to do is to open up your doors and let in anyone that passes by, if they dont understand a politicians priorities are his own Country and own people (By people I also include migrants, but legal ones, workers, 2nd generation, well integrated German speaking migrants)

People need to wake up, I read about Vienna's mayor (Grandaddy Haupl) about giving free U-Bahn tickets to migrants, I mean like Wtf man, the Austrian people pay taxes so in turn they are paying for the Welfare that refugees get and they have no benefits.

The reason it bothers me so much because Wien in my opinion is the best European city, period. It's not that I haven't been to many places, I've been to Brussels, Munich, Berlin, London, Athens, Istanbul, Venice, Rome, Bucharest, Budapest and nothing for me comes close to Wien, in London I felt like i was in India, half of the stores had Indian writing and in East london it was just a Burka fest, it's like a mini Tehran in London. This is not what Europe was and what Europe should be, the same way Muslim countries stay muslim and keep their Culture Europe should do it as well.

If you (I'm reffering to all ultra lefties here) don't wake up soon you will find yourself destroyed by the Monster you created, no tolerance for the intolerant, whatever Religion, Skin tone or nationality that person is.

You continue doing this, and quickly the Democratic right you gave some people that do not deserve them, are going to be turned against you, and you will be stripped of yours. Please stop European genocide.

[Omega21]

One question, would Hofer be a bad president from your point of view?

[Omega21]

One question, would Hofer be a bad president from your point of view?

I don't know if you asked this question specifically to Tender, but if not, maybe you'll want to hear my POV as well.

Yes, Hofer would be a bad president for me - reasons for that are many, but among a few of them there is him being a member of the FPÖ (and my personal distaste against the FPÖ has not only to do with their policies but I guess even more with their associations into certain, shall we call them dubious. corners), his associations with the Burschenschaften and thus his pandering to paleo-German-nationalistic sentiments, and lastly, some of his just hilarious views regarding to his "special portfolio" in parliament, ecological issues. A man that apparently seriously believes the various Chemtrails-conspiracies is bad enough as such, but as the highest public representative of the Republic? He would be nothing but an international disgrace.

Nah man i didn't ask just Tender i meant it for anyone who knew something about him since I didn't know that much.

I don't like FPO that much either but I think they are miles ahead of SPO on their policies on the current Refugee situation, which is not to say they are good, just means that they aren't dumb enough to give the same welfare to Newcomer economic migrants and to Austrians that payed into the system for most of their life. But sadly, the SPO thinks that this is fair..

[Omega21]

I wonder how it would play out if VdB and Hofer make the runoff ...

Under normal circumstances, SPÖ/ÖVP/NEOS-voters would mostly come out and vote for VdB over Hofer, but these are no "normal" times.

Could it end like the mayoral election in Hohenems, just on a national level ?

In Hohenems, slightly before Christmas, the ÖVP-candidate lost to the FPÖ-candidate in a stunning upset - despite SPÖ/Greens/NEOS urging their voters to vote for the ÖVP-guy.

Would a part of the OVP voters go to Hofer if there was a Hofer/Vdb election?

[Omega21]

What are the chances of Kurz being the leader of the ÖVP in the next election?

It really depends on what Kurz's popularity is like in early 2018, or what Mitterlehner's numbers are like. There's a loooong way to go.

And what are the chances of FPO staying 30+% to 2018, as I dont think the Refugee crysis will end by then?

[Omega21]

The election can be in October 2018. Hard to predict what will happen in the meantime.

I think that FPO will still be at least at 28+%, but that's just a wild guess, as I presume this year Europe will get more refugees, compared to last year.

I would like to see this scenario at least, keeps SPO on their toes and doen't let them be that generous to migrants anymore.

http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/politik/Bub-vergewaltigt-Hofer-will-Iraker-ausweisen/223083158

Hofer Presidential boost activated..

[Omega21]

The ÖVP now wants a "pledge of allegiance" for Austrian school children starting at primary school, to promote integration.

Well, no they don't. The leader of the ÖVP in Vienna, who, even by that provincial section's standards, is an irrelevant no-namer, has announced his support for it in yet another desperate plea for attention. Shifting right is probably still the best option for the Vienna ÖVP (the voters lost to the Greens and the NEOS just aren't coming back, not to a party viewed as so toxic and pathetic and backward-looking as the Vienna ÖVP is), but I doubt it will stop their permanent decline.

I don't get it, by this you are saying Greens are better than the OVP?

[Omega21]

The ÖVP now wants a "pledge of allegiance" for Austrian school children starting at primary school, to promote integration.

Well, no they don't. The leader of the ÖVP in Vienna, who, even by that provincial section's standards, is an irrelevant no-namer, has announced his support for it in yet another desperate plea for attention. Shifting right is probably still the best option for the Vienna ÖVP (the voters lost to the Greens and the NEOS just aren't coming back, not to a party viewed as so toxic and pathetic and backward-looking as the Vienna ÖVP is), but I doubt it will stop their permanent decline.

I don't get it, by this you are saying Greens are better than the OVP?

No, he's saying that this isn't an official ÖVP view, it is just the opinion of someone in Vienna's ÖVP. He's also saying that the Vienna ÖVP lost voters to the Greens.

Ah ok, thanks.. Didn't get what he was saying.

[Omega21]

The latest Profil magazine poll from Unique Research:

32% FPÖ
24% ÖVP
23% SPÖ
12% Greens
  8% NEOS
  1% Others

http://www.profil.at/oesterreich/umfrage-fpoe-prozentpunkte-regierungsparteien-6240042

If elections were tomorrow, would you expect a real result like this or is the FPO just pumped up in polls..

[Omega21]

Newest poll:



http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/politik/Hofburg-Wahl-Hofer-schon-auf-Platz-2/225612647

Seems we will be seeing a VdB - Hofer runoff..

[Omega21]

In a runoff i think a lot of Khol voters will go Hofer and that most Griss and Spo voters go Vdb.

[Omega21]

New developments in the Presidential race:

* Van der Bellen (Greens) said in an interview today that he would not swear in the FPÖ - even if they had an absolute majority after the next election.

Very undemocratic, and then he calls the FPO "Nazis" even though he would not swear in a goverment which the Austrian people elected.

[Omega21]

Who connects best with citizens/voters ?



Who can best represent Austria abroad as President ?



Who won the debate / who convinced you most ?

Would you say this poll has some validity, as in is it representative of the General population?

[Omega21]

Would you say this poll has some validity, as in is it representative of the General population?

Yes, of course.

According to pollster OGM, the sample was weighted for federal party preference, gender, age, city-size, education etc.

Besides, the results are not really surprising after watching the debate: Hofer was moderate in the debate, but still tough on the issues important for FPÖ-voters and even had a massive zinger against Van der Bellen. Even the senior editor of the left-liberal "Standard" newspaper (who was in the audience) thought Hofer did a good job.

Griss in 2nd place can also be explained: While she was very technical/judicial/professorial in the first part of the debate, she still came across as very competent and presidential (which would explain why she did badly in the "being close to citizens" question, but solid in the "who can best represent Austria abroad" question). Also her party independence helped her.

Van der Bellen was also solid in his responses, but he was kinda passive throughout the debate and not nearly as presidential or frontrunner-like as his poll numbers would suggest.

Hundstorfer was likeable and gave good answers and zingered Hofer at times, but he represents the SPÖ and the party who leads the unpopular government, which is why he's being dragged down in the polls.

Khol and Lugner were not trainwrecks, but did not manage to go anywhere.

On the topic of TTIP, the moderator asked all candidates to explain in English (!) their positions on the issue and if they would sign a law if it were passed in parliament. Except for Lugner, all candidates spoke solid English and especially Khol gave a really in-depth answer on it.

Thanks for explaining it so good, It just shocked me a bit that Hofer is always 5/6% below VdB and that he got the best response from the audience..

If I understood It correctly, Khol called out Vdb's statement about not swearing in an FPO gov even if it had 50+% of the seats as a :"step towards a fascist president". Did I understand this right because my German is not that good..

If this is the case, could it be that Vdb lost a bit in the debate because of this, because it is not a light statement coming from a Candidate who has a Major candidate who has a big party behind him?

[Omega21]

When driving home from work today, I saw a guy in the car in front of me opening the window and as the car drives by along some posters from Norbert Hofer (FPÖ), the guy put his arm outside and made a Nazi salute ! 3 times, at 3 posters that were along the road !

Doesn't Austria have Nazism under control? I thought only a very small part of the population have such sentiment..

[Omega21]

The final number of eligible voters was released today:

6.382.484

http://www.bmi.gv.at/cms/BMI_wahlen/bundespraes/bpw_2016/Wahlberechtigte.aspx

Assuming turnout is somewhere between 65-75%, around 4.2-4.8 million votes will be cast.

Could you please give us a rundown of the 5-candidate debate on ORF, who was at their best in it?

I didnt understand some dialogue so yeah...

[Omega21]

As far as I know the official stand regarding the FPÖ is of boycott (Israel recalled its ambassador between 2000-03), though in recent years far-right groups here had been making contacts with far right parties and individuals in the US\EU with the "common foe" of Islam. So far it has been rather controversial especially with FN, Afd and such (blames of Jew-washing and such).
  
I don't know what Khaled said, and personally in my experience the foreign Palestinians and sometimes the foreign Israelis\Jews are being more radical and violent (and certainly more hawkish than locals here). But if it were true I'd be rather disappointed by the SPÖ considering the strong past mutual past links and the once strong Jewish vote(my great-grandfather was a member in the days of Austro-Hungaria before he lost his citizenship).

Back to Strache, as I've seen anti-Semitic Jewish bankers caricatures on his facebook page I'd say those who dwell in glass houses...  

True, but it seems this boycott is getting "weaker" recently, no ? Especially with the right-wing coalition in Israel now. Why else would Likud politicians want to meet FPÖ politicians then ?

I also don't know really what Khaled said in the Arab Forum, but media reports suggested she tiraded against Israel etc.

As for the SPÖ: While Strache says that SPÖ/ÖVP and Greens are just sitting on the sidelines and letting her rant against Israel, the Austrian Verfassungsschutz (Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution) is actually monitoring her closely (as they do with all potential and former/current terrorists). But it's true that the SPÖ has a problem with anti-semitism in their ranks as well these days, because the party is attracting more and more Muslim voters (who are generally really anti-semitic). A recent report by the before-mentioned Verfassungsschutz came to the conclusion that most anti-semitic incidents last year were actually committed by Muslims or Austrians with Muslim faith, not native non-Muslim Austrians. For example Omar Al-Rawi (SPÖ politician from Vienna) and Tarik Mete (SPÖ politician from Salzburg) are notorious controversial figures within the party ...

As for Strache and the cartoon from 2012: It's true that the cartoon below appeared on his Facebook page (Strache re-posted it from another user).

The problem for Strache is that there are 2 versions of the cartoon: The original one without the hooked nose and Stars of David (=> as a protest against the banking and political system in general). And the redrawn, newer version with the hooked nose and the Stars of David - which are clearly anti-semitic and reminiscent of the Stürmer cartoons during the Nazi era.

Strache re-posted the second, anti-semitic version of the cartoon:





So, your glass house assessment is correct.

Worth noting is that quite a few ex SPO high ranking officials (MP's, Ministers..) were Nazis, some even in the SS.