Austrian Elections & Politics 2.0 (Presidential runoff re-vote: 4 Dec. 2016)

[MaxQue]

Undemocratic like the US and France?

The US has a presidential system, France has a semi-presidential system. In Austria, however, the president is the merely symbolical head of state. Therefore, the president interfering in politics in an overly ideological manner can be considered illegitimate. Seems rather obvious to me...

However, if that happens, that's because he would have a majority of the votes in the 2nd round, while openly endorsing and running on that position.
We couldn't argue he has no legitimity.

[MaxQue]

One question, would Hofer be a bad president from your point of view?

I don't know if you asked this question specifically to Tender, but if not, maybe you'll want to hear my POV as well.

Yes, Hofer would be a bad president for me - reasons for that are many, but among a few of them there is him being a member of the FPÖ (and my personal distaste against the FPÖ has not only to do with their policies but I guess even more with their associations into certain, shall we call them dubious. corners), his associations with the Burschenschaften and thus his pandering to paleo-German-nationalistic sentiments, and lastly, some of his just hilarious views regarding to his "special portfolio" in parliament, ecological issues. A man that apparently seriously believes the various Chemtrails-conspiracies is bad enough as such, but as the highest public representative of the Republic? He would be nothing but an international disgrace.

Nah man i didn't ask just Tender i meant it for anyone who knew something about him since I didn't know that much.

I don't like FPO that much either but I think they are miles ahead of SPO on their policies on the current Refugee situation, which is not to say they are good, just means that they aren't dumb enough to give the same welfare to Newcomer economic migrants and to Austrians that payed into the system for most of their life. But sadly, the SPO thinks that this is fair..

Given President is mostly a ceremonial position, his position on refugees isn't really relevent.

[MaxQue]

Alright, my (probably crappy) prediction for Sunday:

Chainsmoker - 23%
Smiling Nazi - 23%
Wallflower - 21%
Comrade pin-stripe - 16%
Nazi-Enabler - 12%
Clown - 5%

Run-off predictions come only when it's clear who will be in it.

Smiling Nazi - 24%
Great guy I'd definitely vote for!  - 22%
Wallflower - 19%
Comrade pin-stripe - 16%
Nazi-Enabler - 15%
Clown - 4%

If you are going to empty-quote me, try to do it a little less passive-aggressive next time, dankeschön.

Just do as most people, ignore Bigot21.

[MaxQue]

Alright, my (probably crappy) prediction for Sunday:

Chainsmoker - 23%
Smiling Nazi - 23%
Wallflower - 21%
Comrade pin-stripe - 16%
Nazi-Enabler - 12%
Clown - 5%

Run-off predictions come only when it's clear who will be in it.

Smiling Nazi - 24%
Great guy I'd definitely vote for!  - 22%
Wallflower - 19%
Comrade pin-stripe - 16%
Nazi-Enabler - 15%
Clown - 4%

If you are going to empty-quote me, try to do it a little less passive-aggressive next time, dankeschön.

Just do as most people, ignore Bigot21.

Is not swearing in a majority goverment because of a personal grudge towards a party not anti democratic?

If he was elected by being honest about that, no.

[MaxQue]

Alright, my (probably crappy) prediction for Sunday:

Chainsmoker - 23%
Smiling Nazi - 23%
Wallflower - 21%
Comrade pin-stripe - 16%
Nazi-Enabler - 12%
Clown - 5%

Run-off predictions come only when it's clear who will be in it.

Smiling Nazi - 24%
Great guy I'd definitely vote for!  - 22%
Wallflower - 19%
Comrade pin-stripe - 16%
Nazi-Enabler - 15%
Clown - 4%

If you are going to empty-quote me, try to do it a little less passive-aggressive next time, dankeschön.

Just do as most people, ignore Bigot21.

Is not swearing in a majority goverment because of a personal grudge towards a party not anti democratic?

If he was elected by being honest about that, no.

Then you are not democratic, the president must accept the decision of the people, the majority must rule, no matter how much he hates the Fpo and how much he wants an Eu superstate..

If he is elected, it means the majority of him too.

Should Obama do anything Republicans want, after all, they got a majority?

[MaxQue]

Alright, my (probably crappy) prediction for Sunday:

Chainsmoker - 23%
Smiling Nazi - 23%
Wallflower - 21%
Comrade pin-stripe - 16%
Nazi-Enabler - 12%
Clown - 5%

Run-off predictions come only when it's clear who will be in it.

Smiling Nazi - 24%
Great guy I'd definitely vote for!  - 22%
Wallflower - 19%
Comrade pin-stripe - 16%
Nazi-Enabler - 15%
Clown - 4%

If you are going to empty-quote me, try to do it a little less passive-aggressive next time, dankeschön.

Just do as most people, ignore Bigot21.

Is not swearing in a majority goverment because of a personal grudge towards a party not anti democratic?

A) The FPÖ is never getting elected to a majority government of their own. Not going to happen, honey, so no point in discussing a hypothetical with a .0% chance of happening.
B) If the FPÖ in '18 ends up with, say, 35% and they wanted to form government, there would still be 75% of the population NOT voting for those literal Nazis. In contrast, Van der Bellen would, in the eventually of being elected president, have an absolute majority of 50% of the population behind him.

So maybe next time, if you have no clue about stuff, shut the f up.

Omega21 mode on

But they are not Nazis, they just want to get rid of heretic Mohamedians and Jesus-killers.

[MaxQue]

Clearly, unlike Germany, denazification failed.

[MaxQue]

Clearly, unlike Germany, denazification failed.

lol

What? They are about to elect an open antisemite.

And denazification fails here too. You're still here. Being annexed 70 years ago wasn't enough for you?

[MaxQue]

Clearly, unlike Germany, denazification failed.

Much like it failed in France, Switzerland, Netherlands, Denmark, Poland etc. - right ?

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lections_r%C3%A9gionales_fran%C3%A7aises_de_2015#Provence-Alpes-C.C3.B4te_d.27Azur

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lections_r%C3%A9gionales_fran%C3%A7aises_de_2015#Nord-Pas-de-Calais-Picardie

Denmark and Netherlands far-right is not linked to nazism, nor has dabbled in anti-semitism. Quite the opposite for Denmark.
Switzerland never has been invaded by Germany.
France is different, the population currently voting FN most likely weren't collaborators, nor their descendance.

[MaxQue]

Clearly, unlike Germany, denazification failed.

No idea why you would say this.  Hofer position on immigration, if that were the only issue in an election, would get 90%+ of the vote in places like Taiwan Province (ROC), where I am from, Japan and ROK.  

Well, let's be honest, those countries are not known for being welcoming or anything. They are very bigoted towards anything not being exactly like them.

[MaxQue]

The same pattern in rural Eastern France.

Rural Eastern France isn't the strongest area for the far-right anymore.

It's the former mining/manufacturing areas of the North and the seaside cities where the Pieds-Noirs (the white people having to flee Algeria after independence) were settled.

[MaxQue]

Ing?

Engineer?

[MaxQue]

VdB is now getting death threats on Facebook and someone posted his private address there.

His personal security has been stepped up significantly because of this.

But far right are democrats, they are the people, they would never do that...

[MaxQue]

VdB is now getting death threats on Facebook and someone posted his private address there.

That's incredibly sad and depressing.

But far right are democrats, they are the people, they would never do that...

>Implying Hofer wouldn't have gotten death threats if elected

Unfortunately, nutters are represented in all political camps, though definitely more so on the far left and the far right.

From the track record from the far left, they wouldn't send death threats, they would severely disturb any event related to the Presidency and perhaps rioting, which is barely better.

[MaxQue]

Another major Austrian constitutional expert says the FPÖ's court challenge might succeed to the fullest extent (= runoff being declared illegal and a re-vote is set):

http://derstandard.at/2000038788281/Experte-sieht-gewichtige-Argumente-fuer-blaue-Anfechtung

Can government replaces those judges who dare to reverse popular will?

[MaxQue]

A revote would be fycking insane. This is embarrassing for the FPÖ.

It would mostly be slightly embarrassing for the election officials in question and the country as a whole. Mostly because some election officials acted in a very negligent manner and not 100% in line with the election law and vote count procedures ... and with their actions they also discredited the hard work of the other election officials who did it right.

The FPÖ and Hofer should come out relatively unharmed, but I still expect that VdB would win a re-vote.

No, it would mostly be embarrassing for these morally corrupt judges. You don't overrule the decision of the people over technicalities. Only proven fraud.

[MaxQue]

What in the living hell is this

http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/chronik/Fluechtling-missbraucht-Zwolfjaehrige/240516617

A man god 20 months of Jail for abusing a child, what kind of sick justice system is this?

Could someone explain to me why he cant be sentenced to a correct sentance, fitting the crime.

Underage criminal system.

[MaxQue]

Time for EU sanctions until a reform of the Constitutionnal Court and full replacement of judges.

[MaxQue]

Austria needs a juridicial reform, including replacement of every member of the Constitutionnal Court.

Also, government should get their bank accounts, to see how many were paid by FPO and tere should be protests every day in front of their houses until they resign.

The far-right can't be allowed to steal elections, nor can me (financially or morally) corrupt judges.

[MaxQue]

The new Profil magazine poll shows the FPÖ rising to the highest level ever:

35% FPÖ
24% SPÖ
20% ÖVP
14% Greens
  6% NEOS
  1% Others

Chancellor vote:

34% Christian Kern (SPÖ-incumbent)
18% Heinz-Christian Strache (FPÖ)
10% Reinhold Mitterlehner (ÖVP)
  5% Eva Glawischnig (Greens)
  3% Matthias Strolz (NEOS)
30% None of them/Others

http://www.profil.at/oesterreich/umfrage-kern-kanzlerfrage-spoe-7176638

Nothing unusual. For example the attack in Nice could have been avoided because the attacker was already charged with multiple crimes like Violence, threats and Theft. He got 6 months for attacking a Motorist with a pallet.

If he had been deported for his crimes then all those people wouldn't have died.

He was a French citizen, couldn't have been deported.

[MaxQue]

Isn't being fascist the ultimate proof that they are a perfect fit for Austria's culture?

Hahahahh, maybe 70 years ago..

That is the reason why people are too soft on a number of issues, because saying "We should deport this refugee (or anyone with another citizenship who migrated to Austria) because he raped a little girl" is considered Racist and it will get you called a "Nazi".

Most of us are okay with deporting criminals, the issue is than their home countries don't want to take them back, usually.

[MaxQue]

How long before the far-right judges steal the election again?

[MaxQue]

Official final results, with all postal ballots counted:

53.8% VdB (+3.5%)
46.2% Hofer

Turnout: 74.2% (+1.5%)

http://wahl16.bmi.gv.at

I was at a restaurant a while back, and there was something odd about the waiter's name on the receipt, which caused me to ask what his name was (I can't remember what struck me as odd).

But anyhow he said that his last name was Van Something, and that it was Dutch. He then offered that it had actually been Von Something, but that an ancestor (perhaps his great-grandfather had ended up in the Netherlands after World War II and changed the name, and subsequently immigrated to the United States. He also said it was a family secret that the ancestor had done some bad things during WWII - he didn't provide details, and said it was not a source of family pride.

So I was wondering about Van der Bellen. I found the answer in the Wikipedia.

So my question does his name have any impact on Austrian electoral perceptions? (e.g. that he isn't really Austrian, etc.?)

Netherlands was part of the Hapsburg Empire, at a point.