Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II

[MaxQue]

Harper betrays Canada, undermine Canada position in NAFTA talks

[Santander]

Harper betrays Canada, undermine Canada position in NAFTA talks

It's called real talk from a real leader.

[mileslunn]

I think it will just re-enforce what most on each side believe already.  Most Conservatives think Trudeau is more style than substance so they will agree with Harper while most Liberals think Harper was a disaster and too willing to suck up to the GOP in the US and had few friends abroad so they will argue he is doing more harm.  Whether helping or not, I doubt it will have that big an impact either way.  Anyways the Liberals do have James Moore and Rona Ambrose on their NAFTA committee and do use Brian Mulroney who unlike Harper knows Trump well and has a lot more connections to the Republicans than Harper ever have and unlike Harper doesn't have a strong grudge against Trudeau.

[Hatman 🍁]

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic.

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets

You might find it surprising that I oppose the law; I believe it violates freedom of speech.

[RogueBeaver]

Leger provincial: 34/28/20/12. Lowest ever scores for PLQ/PQ. QS not high or dispersed enough to reverse 1970.

[mileslunn]

Leger provincial: 34/28/20/12. Lowest ever scores for PLQ/PQ. QS not high or dispersed enough to reverse 1970.

Interesting, while numbers seem on the high side for CAQ, the by-election in Louis-Hebert results certainly would play to this being true.  Also I wonder if Bill 62 is an effort by the PLQ to win back some soft CAQ supporters?

Leger also has a federal poll which paints a much rosier picture for the Liberals 42% to Conservatives 30% NDP  15% so once again no bounce for Singh.  Although with Leger when you look at the provinces it seems the Ontario numbers look most out of wack as it is 47% Liberal and 28% Conservative which is way off what all others are saying.  All the other regions are in line with other polls.  NDP doesn't seem to be getting a bounce, but I think on the business taxation issue the Liberals did that when they did to try and drive down NDP support as Singh probably worries them a lot more than Scheer does.  Yes the Conservatives are doing a bit better, but 2015 from historical standards was on the low side for the Conservatives so a slight bounce is no surprise, their main problem is they still have a ways to go before they can win never mind even if they won a minority, it's quite possible the NDP and Liberals would gang up to defeat them on the throne speech and then form a coalition like they tried in 2008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_43rd_Canadian_federal_election

[Blue3]

So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

[mileslunn]

So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

The decline in polling #'s for Trudeau is more due to the poor handling of the tax changes.  Basically he wanted to limit income sprinking so he alienated much of the small business community while his finance minister did a horrible job of defending it.  Also when it turned out his finance minister had a French villa not affected, put his money in Alberta to pay lower taxes, many thought he was being hypocritical.  None of the opposition parties have gained a lot, more Trudeau has taken a hit.  Not a fatal one by any means, but at least somewhat vulnerable at the moment.

[DC Al Fine]

So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

To answer #2, none of the opposition parties have released any big ideas yet. I wouldn't expect that until much closer to the campaign.

[DC Al Fine]

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic.

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets

You might find it surprising that I oppose the law; I believe it violates freedom of speech.

A little, yes. I took a guess at how the regular posters on this thread would feel, and I was on the fence about you... didn't really know how whether you were a civil liberties absolutist or not, so I couldn't make a proper guess.

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic.

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets

Well, it passed with only 1 vote against.
And you know very well than those "protests" are just screaming insults to patients and employees.

Agree with the law, but think politics played a role too.  Wynne is not doing so well in the polls so she is trying everything possible to trip up the PCs.  Since many in the caucus are pro-life and even Brown once was, she was hoping at least some PCs would break ranks and vote against this which didn't happen, only Jack MacLaren who is now in the Trilium Party voted against.

A government (or person for that matter) can't credibly claim to support civil liberties if those civil liberties don't apply to people or policies it finds distasteful. If abortion protesters are really harassing like the bill's proponents claim, then they should be dealt with under existing harassment laws.

Moving onto the politics, yes this was clearly Wynne trying to trip up the PC's, and Brown being disciplined/craven depending on your POV. This is a good reason why I would be a terrible retail politician, as I would have whipped a "No" vote based on civil liberties grounds. I'm not sure who I would vote for if I were in Ontario, probably Trillium/some other fringe party/spoiled ballot depending on the riding.

[Hatman 🍁]

So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

Trudeau's biggest failure IMO is his 180 on electoral reform. Still very angry about it.

[Vega]

So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

Trudeau's biggest failure IMO is his 180 on electoral reform. Still very angry about it.

You can never really rely on one of the big parties to actually enact such major reform, especially electoral reform, if it doesn't immediately benefit them.

[MaxQue]

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic.

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets

You might find it surprising that I oppose the law; I believe it violates freedom of speech.

A little, yes. I took a guess at how the regular posters on this thread would feel, and I was on the fence about you... didn't really know how whether you were a civil liberties absolutist or not, so I couldn't make a proper guess.

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic.

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets

Well, it passed with only 1 vote against.
And you know very well than those "protests" are just screaming insults to patients and employees.

Agree with the law, but think politics played a role too.  Wynne is not doing so well in the polls so she is trying everything possible to trip up the PCs.  Since many in the caucus are pro-life and even Brown once was, she was hoping at least some PCs would break ranks and vote against this which didn't happen, only Jack MacLaren who is now in the Trilium Party voted against.

A government (or person for that matter) can't credibly claim to support civil liberties if those civil liberties don't apply to people or policies it finds distasteful. If abortion protesters are really harassing like the bill's proponents claim, then they should be dealt with under existing harassment laws.

Moving onto the politics, yes this was clearly Wynne trying to trip up the PC's, and Brown being disciplined/craven depending on your POV. This is a good reason why I would be a terrible retail politician, as I would have whipped a "No" vote based on civil liberties grounds. I'm not sure who I would vote for if I were in Ontario, probably Trillium/some other fringe party/spoiled ballot depending on the riding.

So, voting against the rights of the Francophones, instead.

[DC Al Fine]

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic.

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets

You might find it surprising that I oppose the law; I believe it violates freedom of speech.

A little, yes. I took a guess at how the regular posters on this thread would feel, and I was on the fence about you... didn't really know how whether you were a civil liberties absolutist or not, so I couldn't make a proper guess.

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic.

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets

Well, it passed with only 1 vote against.
And you know very well than those "protests" are just screaming insults to patients and employees.

Agree with the law, but think politics played a role too.  Wynne is not doing so well in the polls so she is trying everything possible to trip up the PCs.  Since many in the caucus are pro-life and even Brown once was, she was hoping at least some PCs would break ranks and vote against this which didn't happen, only Jack MacLaren who is now in the Trilium Party voted against.

A government (or person for that matter) can't credibly claim to support civil liberties if those civil liberties don't apply to people or policies it finds distasteful. If abortion protesters are really harassing like the bill's proponents claim, then they should be dealt with under existing harassment laws.

Moving onto the politics, yes this was clearly Wynne trying to trip up the PC's, and Brown being disciplined/craven depending on your POV. This is a good reason why I would be a terrible retail politician, as I would have whipped a "No" vote based on civil liberties grounds. I'm not sure who I would vote for if I were in Ontario, probably Trillium/some other fringe party/spoiled ballot depending on the riding.

So, voting against the rights of the Francophones, instead.

What are the odds that I know the language policies of some fringe party that ran two candidates in 2014 and has a whopping four sentences in the body of its Wikipedia entry? Did DC Al Fine make a quick list of potential options for a pro-life voter after a skim of Wikipedia? Nah, he must have gone out of his way to find an option screw the Francos!

Get a grip.

[DC Al Fine]

So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

Trudeau's biggest failure IMO is his 180 on electoral reform. Still very angry about it.

Eh, I'm sort of torn. I'm disappointed we didn't get MMP or STV, but if the alternative was Trudeau's preferred IRV option (which would have exacerbated the bad tendencies of our current system), I'm not that upset.

[Hatman 🍁]

So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

Trudeau's biggest failure IMO is his 180 on electoral reform. Still very angry about it.

You can never really rely on one of the big parties to actually enact such major reform, especially electoral reform, if it doesn't immediately benefit them.

Did I think he would actually do it? No. But I can still be disappointed. At least I can use it next time a Liberal tries to get me to vote for them.

So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

Trudeau's biggest failure IMO is his 180 on electoral reform. Still very angry about it.

Eh, I'm sort of torn. I'm disappointed we didn't get MMP or STV, but if the alternative was Trudeau's preferred IRV option (which would have exacerbated the bad tendencies of our current system), I'm not that upset.

This is very true. Though, I wouldn't mind IRV if we had a PR senate.

[mileslunn]

I think most polls have shown BC has the highest support for PR so if it fails there it probably is unlikely it would pass elsewhere.  If it passes, Trudeau can easily see best to take a wait and see approach since if it works others will follow and if not others won't.  Certainly there is a strong age divide as older voters are generally content with the current system while younger voters are much more favourable to PR.

[DC Al Fine]

One of the weirder results of the census is that the number of ethnic (as opposed to religious) Jews appears to have declined by over 50% in five years.

[Santander]

One of the weirder results of the census is that the number of ethnic (as opposed to religious) Jews appears to have declined by over 50% in five years.

Supposedly there are only 20,000 Jews living in York Region. Yeah right.

[mileslunn]

One of the weirder results of the census is that the number of ethnic (as opposed to religious) Jews appears to have declined by over 50% in five years.

I am guessing it is more due to people giving different responses.  Jewish is an ethnic group, but many might be identifying by the country their ancestors immigrated from as opposed to Jewish.  Otherwise did the numbers of Russians, Polish, Ukrainians, Hungarians or other countries with large number of Jewish immigrants see a similar jump and if so that probably is the reason.

[Tender Branson]

Trudeau recently said the following when asked about Kurz:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://twitter.com/CBCPolitics/status/926116702877822983

... which is very odd to say, because other than on immigration they are virtually the same on policies. Even on gay marriage, which Kurz personally favours (but is opposed because of party group pressure) and Trump opposes. Trump also favours the death penalty (Kurz and Trudeau of course not). Trump is a strong climate-change critic, Kurz and Trudeau are not. Trump is a sexist troll, Kurz and Trudeau are not.

So, what was Trudeau speaking about ?

[mileslunn]

Trudeau recently said the following when asked about Kurz:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://twitter.com/CBCPolitics/status/926116702877822983

... which is very odd to say, because other than on immigration they are virtually the same on policies. Even on gay marriage, which Kurz personally favours (but is opposed because of party group pressure) and Trump opposes. Trump also favours the death penalty (Kurz and Trudeau of course not). Trump is a strong climate-change critic, Kurz and Trudeau are not. Trump is a sexist troll, Kurz and Trudeau are not.

So, what was Trudeau speaking about ?

You could say on economic policy more aligned with Trump as both favour tax cuts whereas Trudeau only cut for the middle class but not the lower and actually hiked them for the rich (mind you Austria's top rate is already 55% so I think even for Trudeau he wouldn't hike them at that rate).  While I think the emphasis is on tax cuts for the middle class, I presume the lower rates will get dropped and would be surprised if the top rate isn't dropped at some point.

[DC Al Fine]

One of the weirder results of the census is that the number of ethnic (as opposed to religious) Jews appears to have declined by over 50% in five years.

I am guessing it is more due to people giving different responses.  Jewish is an ethnic group, but many might be identifying by the country their ancestors immigrated from as opposed to Jewish.  Otherwise did the numbers of Russians, Polish, Ukrainians, Hungarians or other countries with large number of Jewish immigrants see a similar jump and if so that probably is the reason.

Apparently they list the top twenty ethnicities from the previous census as options on the next one. If you aren't in the top twenty you need to write it in. Jewish apparently dropped out of the top twenty in 2011. They would be more prone to a big drop as a result of that than compared to say Greeks for the reasons you outlined above.

It's an interesting exercise on the quirks and limitations in census data.

[DC Al Fine]

Nova Scotia Tory leader Jamie Baillie has resigned. He will stay on as MLA for Cumberland South until the next election.

[Kingpoleon]

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic.

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets

Protests with the potential to prohibit business transactions, including any and all medical procedures, are absolutely unlawful.

I mean, I'm not really very pro-choice, but your position here is concerning to me.