Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II

[Vega]

I think the biggest problem with the Dump Mulcair movement is the lack of a strong prospective leader waiting in the wings. I mean, there is Barry Weisleder from the Socialist Caucus... but...

[RogueBeaver]

China policy review underway.

[RogueBeaver]

Ottawa looks to ink an infrastructure deal with the provinces.

PC MPP Jack MacLaren is a misogynist douche (NSFW).

[Hatman 🍁]

MacLaren being a nutjob is not a new thing. I remember hearing a story from my university days of a professor railing on about him, only to find out that MacLaren's son was in the class!

[Poirot]

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The possible names I've read are Nathan Cullen, Megan Leslie, Niki Ashton.

If Mulcair gets 60%, which could be seen as a slap in the face, will he stay as MP or start looking for another job and resign in the short term and let the NDP try to hold the riiding of Outremont.

If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.

[RogueBeaver]

If Mulcair gets 60 he would quit. But he'll get 70+ and stay.

[DC Al Fine]

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The possible names I've read are Nathan Cullen, Megan Leslie, Niki Ashton.

If Mulcair gets 60%, which could be seen as a slap in the face, will he stay as MP or start looking for another job and resign in the short term and let the NDP try to hold the riiding of Outremont.

If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.

I have no idea what Mulcair would actually do, but if I was in that situation I would say f[inks] you, resign my seat and let the Liberals take my riding to embarass whoever put the knives in my back. Then again I have a tendency to hold grudges

[RogueBeaver]

Jacques Demers had a stroke last night and is hospitalized in stable condition.

NDP youth is anti-Mulcair.

[Poirot]

Just before  the NPD convention Forum has a poll on Mulcair leadership. In the general population, 32% agree Mulcair should step down, 36% disagree. Only Quebec and Ontario have more disagree than agree (in Quebec 50% disagree).

Among those voting NDP, 22% agree with step down while 56% disagree.

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2490/just-one-third-of-canadians-think-he-should-stay/

[Poirot]

It will be interesting to see what the NDP does with the principles of the Leap manifesto. In opposition you can be more against oil and pipeline than in a general election in which your opponents will attack you for hurting the economy and lose potential votes.

Parties adopt policies but they also choose what they put in the election come election. The manifesto seems to question capitalism. The party tried to be seen as a potential responsible government. If they become too radical they will lose that. Maybe they will prefer ideals over electability. I hope they don't think the more left they go the more popular they will be.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-oil-ground-manifesto-1.3523849

[Hatman 🍁]

You can watch the NDP convention here: http://www.cpac.ca/en/ndp-convention/

[DC Al Fine]

It will be interesting to see what the NDP does with the principles of the Leap manifesto. In opposition you can be more against oil and pipeline than in a general election in which your opponents will attack you for hurting the economy and lose potential votes.

Parties adopt policies but they also choose what they put in the election come election. The manifesto seems to question capitalism. The party tried to be seen as a potential responsible government. If they become too radical they will lose that. Maybe they will prefer ideals over electability. I hope they don't think the more left they go the more popular they will be.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-oil-ground-manifesto-1.3523849

The NDP does need to tack left to win both to keep their base turning out and win back promiscuous progressives. The question is by how much. If they go too far they risk alienating the centre leftists they need to recover strongly.

[DC Al Fine]

To add to Hatman's point about Mulcair:

The electoral map in Quebec is quite precarious. The NDP won a mere 6 seats by  >5% and one of those was Mulcair's. If the new NDP leader does not have any regional appeal the NDP could be reduced to a couple popular MPs and progressive enclaves due to a marginal favourite son effect wearing off.

[DC Al Fine]

Details leaking out about the new assisted suicide law.

The bill will apparently take a fairly conservative approach and avoid some of the more controversial suggestions out there such as allowing assisted suicide for minors, or requiring physicians to euthanize despite conscience concerns.

Frankly, this is a lot better than I was expecting.

[Linus Van Pelt]

I finally got around to reading the "leap manifesto". It's actually less radical than I expected from media depictions: higher, more progressive taxes, no new pipelines, public transit, indigenous rights, etc. But it's not really anti-capitalist, at least in its specific proposals.

But I guess it fits a certain narrative about the NDP to have a bunch of radical leftists fighting the leadership.

[MaxQue]

But I guess it fits a certain narrative about the NDP to have a bunch of radical leftists fighting the leadership.

It's Canada, all media do what the Liberal spinroom tells them to say.

[Vega]

If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.

Maybe he'd become a Conservative, he already tried being a Liberal.

The Review is tomorrow, right?

[MaxQue]

If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.

Maybe he'd become a Conservative, he already tried being a Liberal.

The Review is tomorrow, right?

That's quite unfair, as there is no provincial NDP in Quebec.

[RogueBeaver]

Potential steel protectionism inbound.

Conrad Black gives Justin a positive review so far.


Forum: 51/28/12.

[Hatman 🍁]

But I guess it fits a certain narrative about the NDP to have a bunch of radical leftists fighting the leadership.

It's Canada, all media do what the Liberal spinroom tells them to say.

Just like in the US, except replace Liberal with Clinton

If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.

Maybe he'd become a Conservative, he already tried being a Liberal.

The Review is tomorrow, right?

Tomorrow (Sunday) morning. Or afternoon I guess, given the time change.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

I haven't been paying much attention to Canadian politics much since the elections. Why is Mulcair drawing so much hate from the NDP base? Is it because of the election results and him shifting the party rightward?

[2952-0-0]

I haven't been paying much attention to Canadian politics much since the elections. Why is Mulcair drawing so much hate from the NDP base? Is it because of the election results and him shifting the party rightward?

Not just that. His concession speech on election night pretended as if the party wasn't thrashed. Then he seemed to cocoon himself around his handlers, only making weak progressive noises (like denouncing Trudeau for not explicitly denouncing Donald Trump ) when he realized he truly had a fight on his hands. Who wouldn't be angry in such circumstances?

[Poirot]

I haven't been paying much attention to Canadian politics much since the elections. Why is Mulcair drawing so much hate from the NDP base? Is it because of the election results and him shifting the party rightward?

I'm wondering if he was ever fully accepted, not having a long NDP pedigree. A good portion of the party (even Broadbent) didn't want him during the leadership race and he represents a "reasonable left" rather than more "radical left".

Alberta Premier Notley pleaded for support for oil and pipeline to help Alberta. Maybe the Alberta delegates should think of voting for Mulcair to stay because if the party choose a new leader with a sharp left discourse, that usually means anti-oil / pro-environment.

I saw a convention delegate count by province (this excludes union delegates who are not representeing provinces)

Ontario 433
Alberta 344
BC 244
Québec 156
Saskatchewan 114
Others 96

I have watched some convention activity on tv and I'm not used to people refering to others as brother or sister. It was a bit weird.

[Hatman 🍁]

The large Alberta delegation may just help Mulcair. Though, they many could be hippies from Strathcona, so who knows...

I have watched some convention activity on tv and I'm not used to people refering to others as brother or sister. It was a bit weird.

That's leftist politics for you

There are a lot of weird things going on at NDP conventions.

[Derpist]

If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.

Maybe he'd become a Conservative, he already tried being a Liberal.

The Review is tomorrow, right?

That's quite unfair, as there is no provincial NDP in Quebec.

Yes, he was a member of the Quebec Liberal Party.

Which means he really could give being a Tory a shot.