Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II

[Hatman 🍁]

What has the PQ done to offend the sensibilities of the left wing sovereignty movement? I do know that when the PQ was founded in the 1970's it was very close with the labour movement and was a dedicated social democratic party. Did they take the Clintonian DLC/Tony Blair New Labour approach in the 1990's then?

A lot of it has to do with the election of Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, that and the fact that the PQ has a nobody as its leader.

[RogueBeaver]

Yes, QS originates from PQ's fiscal hawkishness under Bouchard and to a lesser extent, Marois - "déficit zéro" as it's known here. Just one of their major structural weaknesses.

[RogueBeaver]

Leger confirms Mainstreet: 31/28/22/15.

No summer shuffle. Though IMO we'll still have a fall prorogation.

[Hatman 🍁]

I love how QS is polling higher among Anglos/Allos than the PQ; twice as high even.  I suppose the PQ is seen as the "separatist party" whereas QS is seen as the "socialist party" despite the two parties being just as committed to sovereignty. 

[MaxQue]

I love how QS is polling higher among Anglos/Allos than the PQ; twice as high even.  I suppose the PQ is seen as the "separatist party" whereas QS is seen as the "socialist party" despite the two parties being just as committed to sovereignty. 

There is a difference. Soverignty is the goal for PQ, it's a mean to QS (to execute their program).

[Njall]

Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

[DC Al Fine]

Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

On a related note, how are the Liberals doing? Basically moribund or do they have serious plans for a comeback attempt in 2019?

[Hatman 🍁]

Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

What's the point? The only way a non right wing party is going to win is with a divided right or a catch-all non Conservative Party. And the NDP is the best vehicle for that, it certainly is very centrist (at least compared to where the NDP is usually in other jurisdictions).

[TheSaint250]

Any chance of an early Alberta election?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Any chance of an early Alberta election?

Can't think why the NDP would call one, especially considering their only hope is to hope the oil prices rise soon and the diasterous move by Prentice in 2015 that brought them into power in the first place.

[RogueBeaver]

They're polling around 25%, so no. Or she can ask David Peterson and Pauline Marois for advice.

[TheSaint250]

Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

[RogueBeaver]

Bipartisanship or holding pattern?

Grit backbenchers want Justin to guarantee their nominations.

[Hatman 🍁]

Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

[TheSaint250]

Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

Especially, in this case with NDP down by so much.

Also, second question: is there any progress at all on uniting Wildrose and PC, or is that just the leader's fantasy?

[RogueBeaver]

Read the thread. Both parties will hold merger referenda on July 22.

[TheSaint250]

Read the thread. Both parties will hold merger referenda on July 22.

Oh ok sorry

[Hatman 🍁]

Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

Especially, in this case with NDP down by so much.

Doesn't matter what the polls say, no lead is safe when a snap election is called. I kept telling people this when the UK election was called, but it fell on deaf ears around here.

[Njall]

Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

In any case, Notley's already nixed the idea.

Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

What's the point? The only way a non right wing party is going to win is with a divided right or a catch-all non Conservative Party. And the NDP is the best vehicle for that, it certainly is very centrist (at least compared to where the NDP is usually in other jurisdictions).

There are quite a number of people who see the NDP as being too fiscally irresponsible (due to year-over-year deficit projections of $10 billion or more even with optimistic oil price projections, the fact that they're on course to rack up $70 billion of debt, the fact that AB has already seen five credit downgrades, etc.), but also don't want to vote for a hard-right Kenney-led party. In other words, the appetite seems to be there for a fiscally conservative, socially progressive party.

On a related note, how are the Liberals doing? Basically moribund or do they have serious plans for a comeback attempt in 2019?

The AB Liberals just wrapped up a leadership race, where former ALP Executive Vice President David Khan beat former LPC candidate (and provincial PC member until Kenney won) Kerry Cundal, 54% to 46%. Cundal was running on a platform of centrist unity, while Khan wants to keep the ALP alive as a distinct party. Khan's planning on running candidates in all 87 ridings in 2019, but I personally don't see the ALP as being in a good position strategically. They only have around 2,000 members (almost half of whom essentially voted to unite-the-centre), are only polling at around 5%, and are likely looking at their only MLA retiring at the next election.

[136or142]

Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

In any case, Notley's already nixed the idea.

Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

What's the point? The only way a non right wing party is going to win is with a divided right or a catch-all non Conservative Party. And the NDP is the best vehicle for that, it certainly is very centrist (at least compared to where the NDP is usually in other jurisdictions).

There are quite a number of people who see the NDP as being too fiscally irresponsible (due to year-over-year deficit projections of $10 billion or more even with optimistic oil price projections, the fact that they're on course to rack up $70 billion of debt, the fact that AB has already seen five credit downgrades, etc.), but also don't want to vote for a hard-right Kenney-led party. In other words, the appetite seems to be there for a fiscally conservative, socially progressive party.

On a related note, how are the Liberals doing? Basically moribund or do they have serious plans for a comeback attempt in 2019?

The AB Liberals just wrapped up a leadership race, where former ALP Executive Vice President David Khan beat former LPC candidate (and provincial PC member until Kenney won) Kerry Cundal, 54% to 46%. Cundal was running on a platform of centrist unity, while Khan wants to keep the ALP alive as a distinct party. Khan's planning on running candidates in all 87 ridings in 2019, but I personally don't see the ALP as being in a good position strategically. They only have around 2,000 members (almost half of whom essentially voted to unite-the-centre), are only polling at around 5%, and are likely looking at their only MLA retiring at the next election.

I can certainly appreciate the 'stocker shock' at the size of the deficits under the NDP government.  But, I think this new 'centrist' party, if it emerges, needs to be made to deal in specifics.  If it wants to cut spending, they need to detail precisely what spending cuts they would make.  If they reply to a question on this with 'reduce waste and make efficiencies' they should not be regarded as a serious political party.

I also am aware that Alberta pays its public servants more than in other provinces and that the NDP is currently in the process of negotiating new contracts that involve 0% wage increases over the life of the contract.  So, if the answer from this new party is 'we would legislate wage rollbacks to the public service'  I think that is a responsible government response to the deficits, but I think Albertans should be aware of that when voting in 2019.

[Njall]

Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

In any case, Notley's already nixed the idea.

Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

What's the point? The only way a non right wing party is going to win is with a divided right or a catch-all non Conservative Party. And the NDP is the best vehicle for that, it certainly is very centrist (at least compared to where the NDP is usually in other jurisdictions).

There are quite a number of people who see the NDP as being too fiscally irresponsible (due to year-over-year deficit projections of $10 billion or more even with optimistic oil price projections, the fact that they're on course to rack up $70 billion of debt, the fact that AB has already seen five credit downgrades, etc.), but also don't want to vote for a hard-right Kenney-led party. In other words, the appetite seems to be there for a fiscally conservative, socially progressive party.

On a related note, how are the Liberals doing? Basically moribund or do they have serious plans for a comeback attempt in 2019?

The AB Liberals just wrapped up a leadership race, where former ALP Executive Vice President David Khan beat former LPC candidate (and provincial PC member until Kenney won) Kerry Cundal, 54% to 46%. Cundal was running on a platform of centrist unity, while Khan wants to keep the ALP alive as a distinct party. Khan's planning on running candidates in all 87 ridings in 2019, but I personally don't see the ALP as being in a good position strategically. They only have around 2,000 members (almost half of whom essentially voted to unite-the-centre), are only polling at around 5%, and are likely looking at their only MLA retiring at the next election.

I can certainly appreciate the 'stocker shock' at the size of the deficits under the NDP government.  But, I think this new 'centrist' party, if it emerges, needs to be made to deal in specifics.  If it wants to cut spending, they need to detail precisely what spending cuts they would make.  If they reply to a question on this with 'reduce waste and make efficiencies' they should not be regarded as a serious political party.

The Alberta Party, which appears to be the likely vehicle for centrist unity, has been the only opposition party to release shadow budgets each year since the NDP got in. Here is their 2017 shadow budget.

[136or142]

Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

In any case, Notley's already nixed the idea.

Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

What's the point? The only way a non right wing party is going to win is with a divided right or a catch-all non Conservative Party. And the NDP is the best vehicle for that, it certainly is very centrist (at least compared to where the NDP is usually in other jurisdictions).

There are quite a number of people who see the NDP as being too fiscally irresponsible (due to year-over-year deficit projections of $10 billion or more even with optimistic oil price projections, the fact that they're on course to rack up $70 billion of debt, the fact that AB has already seen five credit downgrades, etc.), but also don't want to vote for a hard-right Kenney-led party. In other words, the appetite seems to be there for a fiscally conservative, socially progressive party.

On a related note, how are the Liberals doing? Basically moribund or do they have serious plans for a comeback attempt in 2019?

The AB Liberals just wrapped up a leadership race, where former ALP Executive Vice President David Khan beat former LPC candidate (and provincial PC member until Kenney won) Kerry Cundal, 54% to 46%. Cundal was running on a platform of centrist unity, while Khan wants to keep the ALP alive as a distinct party. Khan's planning on running candidates in all 87 ridings in 2019, but I personally don't see the ALP as being in a good position strategically. They only have around 2,000 members (almost half of whom essentially voted to unite-the-centre), are only polling at around 5%, and are likely looking at their only MLA retiring at the next election.

I can certainly appreciate the 'stocker shock' at the size of the deficits under the NDP government.  But, I think this new 'centrist' party, if it emerges, needs to be made to deal in specifics.  If it wants to cut spending, they need to detail precisely what spending cuts they would make.  If they reply to a question on this with 'reduce waste and make efficiencies' they should not be regarded as a serious political party.

The Alberta Party, which appears to be the likely vehicle for centrist unity, has been the only opposition party to release shadow budgets each year since the NDP got in. Here is their 2017 shadow budget.

The Alberta Party plan operating expense by ministry are on page 22.  It's basically a 'flexible freeze' but it calls for a nearly $100 million cut in spending on seniors and housing, a small cut in health spending and a freeze on spending for children's services.  It's honest as far as it goes, but those are obviously things the NDP would focus on.

[136or142]

I don't think this has been mentioned before, Andrew Scheer named Alain Rayes, M.P for Richmond-Arthabaska as his Quebec Lieutenant.  Not a surprise that the higher profile Gerard Deltell was passed over given that he endorsed, I believe, Erin O'Toole, but not sure were this leaves Maxime Bernier.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/alain-rayes-andrew-scheer-quebec-1.4177190

[Kingpoleon]

The Alberta Party, if it wants to be seriously effective, needs to ally with the Liberals and the Redford wing of the Progressive Conservatives.

[Santander]

The Alberta Party, if it wants to be seriously effective, needs to ally with the Liberals and the Redford wing of the Progressive Conservatives.

You mean the hilariously corrupt one?