Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
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  Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
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Question: Does uniting the right in Alberta mean the NDP is toast next election?
#1
Absolutely they are done like dinner
 
#2
NDP still might win, but will be a steep hill to climb
 
#3
NDP will likely win, UCP too extreme
 
#4
NDP will definitely win
 
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Author Topic: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II  (Read 188632 times)
Cubby
Pim Fortuyn
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« Reply #700 on: November 27, 2016, 03:19:07 PM »

I forgot about Thatcher, it's true there was some uncouth behavior when she died but that was all online, unless there was a conga line through the streets of Sheffield or Glasgow that wasn't reported in the US.

Maybe it's different for Trudeau because he or his father met Castro, not sure what the history is there. It's easy to criticize someone but if you had a relationship with them, in passing or not, the first response might not be to call him a murderous dictator, even if that's the truth.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #701 on: November 27, 2016, 05:27:21 PM »

I forgot about Thatcher, it's true there was some uncouth behavior when she died but that was all online, unless there was a conga line through the streets of Sheffield or Glasgow that wasn't reported in the US.

Maybe it's different for Trudeau because he or his father met Castro, not sure what the history is there. It's easy to criticize someone but if you had a relationship with them, in passing or not, the first response might not be to call him a murderous dictator, even if that's the truth.

It's not even that. I get that he's a world leader and he can't just go and damn Castro to hell. I'd be happy to settle for something mealy mouthed like President Obama's statement, but PM Trudeau's was a bridge too far.
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136or142
Adam T
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« Reply #702 on: November 28, 2016, 05:41:02 AM »
« Edited: November 28, 2016, 05:42:34 AM by Adam T »

I forgot about Thatcher, it's true there was some uncouth behavior when she died but that was all online, unless there was a conga line through the streets of Sheffield or Glasgow that wasn't reported in the US.

Maybe it's different for Trudeau because he or his father met Castro, not sure what the history is there. It's easy to criticize someone but if you had a relationship with them, in passing or not, the first response might not be to call him a murderous dictator, even if that's the truth.

It's not even that. I get that he's a world leader and he can't just go and damn Castro to hell. I'd be happy to settle for something mealy mouthed like President Obama's statement, but PM Trudeau's was a bridge too far.

Since when aren't eulogies 'Wasn't he a wonderful person, blah, blah, blah" nonsense?

It was the exact same thing when the vile POS Antonin Scalia died.

In my opinion, in terms of abusing their positions, Scalia was every bit as bad and as evil as Fidel Castro was.

Yet, for instance, here in the Atlas Forum nobody was allowed to write at the time of Scalia's death anything along the lines of: "Wonderful news that this POS Scalia is dead.  I know he's going to rot in Hell where he belongs for all eternity."

Trudeau's comments were nonsensical but the effusive praise about the pond scum Scalia were also equally nonsensical.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #703 on: November 28, 2016, 06:13:42 AM »
« Edited: November 28, 2016, 06:15:43 AM by DC Al Fine »

I forgot about Thatcher, it's true there was some uncouth behavior when she died but that was all online, unless there was a conga line through the streets of Sheffield or Glasgow that wasn't reported in the US.

Maybe it's different for Trudeau because he or his father met Castro, not sure what the history is there. It's easy to criticize someone but if you had a relationship with them, in passing or not, the first response might not be to call him a murderous dictator, even if that's the truth.

It's not even that. I get that he's a world leader and he can't just go and damn Castro to hell. I'd be happy to settle for something mealy mouthed like President Obama's statement, but PM Trudeau's was a bridge too far.

Since when aren't eulogies 'Wasn't he a wonderful person, blah, blah, blah" nonsense?

It was the exact same thing when the vile POS Antonin Scalia died.

In my opinion, in terms of abusing their positions, Scalia was every bit as bad and as evil as Fidel Castro was.

Yet, for instance, here in the Atlas Forum nobody was allowed to write at the time of Scalia's death anything along the lines of: "Wonderful news that this POS Scalia is dead.  I know he's going to rot in Hell where he belongs for all eternity."

Trudeau's comments were nonsensical but the effusive praise about the pond scum Scalia were also equally nonsensical.

Roll Eyes

That's right. I forgot when Scalia seized power in a bloody revolution, executed dissidents and put people in forced labour camps.

Good grief, this false equivalency is foolish.
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Intell
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« Reply #704 on: November 28, 2016, 06:23:20 AM »

They have the right to party, when Castro died, I would've done the same thing with Thatcher. They don’t have any claims on supporting democracy or any of that shyte, they were fine with Bautista as their dictator, and only left because a lot of them were landowning elite who would’ve have property take from them, if they would have faced repression, that still doesn’t mean they can cry DEMOCCRACY, when many of them supported a Bautista dictatorship, when they benefited from it.  All this shyte on “Free Cuba” and all the rest, there fine in where Cuba was a banana republic to the US, ripe with prostitution, gambling, casinos while the other half of the country, was full with poverty and desolation. They have no basis in attacking Castro, less so on democratic grounds but more on ground that HE WAS A COMMIE who took their property, especially in where most of them were supporting a bay of pigs invasion, and a goal of assassinating a foreign leader. Many who left Cuba, were of the middle class and the rich.
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136or142
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« Reply #705 on: November 28, 2016, 06:39:16 AM »
« Edited: November 28, 2016, 07:13:54 AM by Adam T »

I forgot about Thatcher, it's true there was some uncouth behavior when she died but that was all online, unless there was a conga line through the streets of Sheffield or Glasgow that wasn't reported in the US.

Maybe it's different for Trudeau because he or his father met Castro, not sure what the history is there. It's easy to criticize someone but if you had a relationship with them, in passing or not, the first response might not be to call him a murderous dictator, even if that's the truth.

It's not even that. I get that he's a world leader and he can't just go and damn Castro to hell. I'd be happy to settle for something mealy mouthed like President Obama's statement, but PM Trudeau's was a bridge too far.

Since when aren't eulogies 'Wasn't he a wonderful person, blah, blah, blah" nonsense?

It was the exact same thing when the vile POS Antonin Scalia died.

In my opinion, in terms of abusing their positions, Scalia was every bit as bad and as evil as Fidel Castro was.

Yet, for instance, here in the Atlas Forum nobody was allowed to write at the time of Scalia's death anything along the lines of: "Wonderful news that this POS Scalia is dead.  I know he's going to rot in Hell where he belongs for all eternity."

Trudeau's comments were nonsensical but the effusive praise about the pond scum Scalia were also equally nonsensical.

Roll Eyes

That's right. I forgot when Scalia seized power in a bloody revolution, executed dissidents and put people in forced labour camps.

Good grief, this false equivalency is foolish.

For some reason you didn't highlight the first part of my sentence.  Could you please explain to me why you did  that.

Here is one article that may or may not be balanced "Is Scalia the most vile person in Washington"

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/05/is_scalia_the_most_vile_person_in_washington/

As the article correctly points out, he assisted in the undemocratic court majority that installed George W Bush as President and prevented a proper recount that would have more accurately determined the actual winner on the basis of reasons that the court clearly itself agreed were nonsense.  That alone showed that when given the opportunity he was every bit as undemocratic as Castro was.

He lied he was a 'Constitutional originalist' yet routinely cast that aside in order to make the ruling that he wanted whether he could find any justification for it in the Constitution or not.  

This included his rulings that would have let the death penalty stand for people who were innocent or intellectually disabled.  That's not the same as personally ordering the executions of dissidents, but if you have to argue that sort of thing on the basis of which is worse, I don't think you have a winning argument there.

He defended torture on the basis that he saw how well it worked in the fictional T.V show '24.'  That is neither a joke nor an unbalanced interpretation of what he said.  He also voted in favor of things that benefited private prisons that do, in fact, sometimes use prisoners as labor, which is obviously forced.

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/21/its_time_to_end_antonin_scalias_prison_state_how_the_next_scotus_justice_could_help_end_mass_incarceration/

He routinely made racist, sexist and homophobic comments and clearly was a sexist, racist homophobe.

He dismissed legitimate concerns over conflict of interest.

He was complete scum and he completely abused his position and the world is a better place without him in it, just as the world is a better place without Fidel Castro in it.

In the context that I used, there was no false equivalency.  He didn't need to overthrow the government in order to abuse his office.

The man who Castro overthrew was a brutal dictator as well, btw, so there was no way to remove him from office without a bloody revolution in order to abuse his office.

He wasn't in a position to execute dissidents or put people into forced labor camps personally, but I think I've made a pretty decent case that he was every bit as vile as he could be in his position as Castro was in his position and also that he was as vile a human as Castro was.

So, no.  There was no false equivalency from me in the slightest.

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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #706 on: November 29, 2016, 04:52:23 PM »

Trans Mountain & Line 3 approved, Northern Gateway dead.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #707 on: November 29, 2016, 06:22:20 PM »

I am scoffing Adam, because I think the idea of functional equivalency between positions is an absurd premise. What functional equivalence is there to setting up a concentration camp in other professions? There is none, because heads of state operate at a whole different level from the rest of us.
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136or142
Adam T
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« Reply #708 on: November 29, 2016, 09:43:25 PM »

I am scoffing Adam, because I think the idea of functional equivalency between positions is an absurd premise. What functional equivalence is there to setting up a concentration camp in other professions? There is none, because heads of state operate at a whole different level from the rest of us.

Try to apply utility theory.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #709 on: November 30, 2016, 01:34:20 PM »


JUNK POLL!

Here is another one, with more sane numbers: http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/embargoed-new-alberta-poll-shows-tight-race

Wildrose: 35
NDP: 31
PC: 24
Liberal: 4
AP: 3

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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #710 on: December 01, 2016, 11:33:55 AM »

Electoral reform committee recommends PR & a binary referendum, Grit minority report rejects that. Remember when people (not here obviously) thought this Grit government would be different with the previous one?
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #711 on: December 01, 2016, 11:40:43 AM »

Electoral reform is one of my bread and butter issues, and I could've spent a lot of time working on submitting my opinions and proposals to the committee. But I knew in the end it would be a big waste of time.

No more sunny ways, eh?
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #712 on: December 02, 2016, 10:35:26 AM »

Scarpaleggia to Le Devoir: yes we committed to electoral reform, but we wanted a ranked ballot and no one else did.

Carr is looking at lifting the restrictions on Chinese oilsands investment and also said all necessary force would be used to clear out violent pipeline protests.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #713 on: December 02, 2016, 07:03:38 PM »


Roll Eyes
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #714 on: December 02, 2016, 07:08:16 PM »


Just curious Hatman, do you prefer FPTP or IRV?
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #715 on: December 03, 2016, 10:52:53 AM »

Trudeau insists electoral reform's still on the table.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #716 on: December 04, 2016, 07:55:24 AM »
« Edited: December 04, 2016, 08:02:14 AM by DC Al Fine »

The Nova Scotia government has sorta, kinda locked teachers out, starting Monday.

Tl;dr

Union wants roughly $170 million in changes to working conditions (e.g. hiring staff to enter data into report systems, do photocopying etc.) This is a ~14% increase in the education budget. Government is pushing budgetary restraint and balked at this. The Union implemented work to rule, and the government has responded by closing schools... but the teachers are still getting paid and are supposed to show up to work, and teach empty classrooms I guess. The Liberals will be introducing back to work legislation on Monday.

Basically, this is the latest in a long string of examples of the Atlantic provinces crappy fiscal situation.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #717 on: December 05, 2016, 01:34:41 AM »


Well, my preferable system would be ranked ballot house and a PR Senate. I would support ranked ballot over FPTP, but many who support electoral reform see it as a lateral move. I am a big proponent for ranked ballot in municipal elections, as they're not partisan.

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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #718 on: December 05, 2016, 05:48:07 PM »

First Ministers dinner on Friday.
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136or142
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« Reply #719 on: December 07, 2016, 02:07:54 PM »


JUNK POLL!

Here is another one, with more sane numbers: http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/embargoed-new-alberta-poll-shows-tight-race

Wildrose: 35
NDP: 31
PC: 24
Liberal: 4
AP: 3



Another poll has similar numbers to the poll cited here.  So, given the state of polling, if the election were held today, the Alberta Liberals would win every riding ! Cheesy

WRP: 34%
NDP: 27%
P.C: 27%
Lib: 5%
Other: 6%

http://www.insightswest.com/news/alberta-government-improves-on-energy-and-pipeline-management/
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Zioneer
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« Reply #720 on: December 08, 2016, 01:03:19 AM »

In retrospect, since the NDP went so downhill since Jack Layton's death, what is his legacy? Keep in mind that I know some NDP history, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details, not being Canadian or an Dipper (though I am in favor of them).
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #721 on: December 08, 2016, 09:19:02 AM »

In retrospect, since the NDP went so downhill since Jack Layton's death, what is his legacy? Keep in mind that I know some NDP history, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details, not being Canadian or an Dipper (though I am in favor of them).

He took a party on life support and revitalized them into a strong third party. If NDP gets smashed in 2019, particularly here in Quebec, then he'll be tied with Broadbent as their most successful leader and nothing else.
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136or142
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« Reply #722 on: December 08, 2016, 03:34:01 PM »

In retrospect, since the NDP went so downhill since Jack Layton's death, what is his legacy? Keep in mind that I know some NDP history, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details, not being Canadian or an Dipper (though I am in favor of them).

He extracted a 'better balanced budget' from the Paul Martin Liberal minority government.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #723 on: December 08, 2016, 03:36:45 PM »

PEI poll, posting it because I am happy to see Liberal support eroding there after their giant "fuck you" after going against the result of the electoral reform referendum.

Liberal: 46 (-18)
PC: 25 (+3)
Green: 22 (+13)
NDP: 7 (-1)


Ironically due to the vote split, they would probably win every seat with those numbers.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #724 on: December 08, 2016, 03:39:54 PM »
« Edited: December 08, 2016, 03:49:37 PM by RogueBeaver »

In retrospect, since the NDP went so downhill since Jack Layton's death, what is his legacy? Keep in mind that I know some NDP history, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details, not being Canadian or an Dipper (though I am in favor of them).

He extracted a 'better balanced budget' from the Paul Martin Liberal minority government.

Also worked fairly well with Harper during the minority era. But before his death Grits really disliked him for toppling Martin and enabling the Harper decade. Hell, even after his death in some Grit quarters. They did forgive him for saying Martin's budgets caused homeless deaths though.
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