Netanyahu: Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews, Palestinian talked him into it

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Netanyahu considers revoking rights of Palestinians in East Jerusalem:
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/26/netanyahu-mulls-revoking-rights-for-some-palestinians-in-east-jerusalem.html

I think this is a bad move that would inflame things further, but Abbas really needs to examine what happened to Gaza when Hamas declared war on Israel, and think about whether following suit is a good idea. Because at this point he's actively inciting violence against Israelis, and this is where that path leads.

Much like Netanyahu, in fact, Abbas is being pushed by the base. If he doesn't amp up his rhetoric he will likely be kicked and replaced with someone more extreme.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Netanyahu considers revoking rights of Palestinians in East Jerusalem:
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/26/netanyahu-mulls-revoking-rights-for-some-palestinians-in-east-jerusalem.html

If I compare this action to the Nuremberg laws would I be considered an Anti-Semite by the AIPAC crowd?

Yes. Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is inherently anti-semitic, no matter the context. This has been discussed at length here and elsewhere.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Netanyahu considers revoking rights of Palestinians in East Jerusalem:
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/26/netanyahu-mulls-revoking-rights-for-some-palestinians-in-east-jerusalem.html

If I compare this action to the Nuremberg laws would I be considered an Anti-Semite by the AIPAC crowd?

Yes. Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is inherently anti-semitic, no matter the context. This has been discussed at length here and elsewhere.

Only I didn't compare Israel to Nazi Germany you fool but this specific action.
You understand English or do I have to write it in Hebrew to understand?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Netanyahu considers revoking rights of Palestinians in East Jerusalem:
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/26/netanyahu-mulls-revoking-rights-for-some-palestinians-in-east-jerusalem.html

If I compare this action to the Nuremberg laws would I be considered an Anti-Semite by the AIPAC crowd?

Yes. Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is inherently anti-semitic, no matter the context. This has been discussed at length here and elsewhere.

Only I didn't compare Israel to Nazi Germany you fool but this specific action.
You understand English or do I have to write it in Hebrew to understand?

I'm fairly certain that you're capable of finding a comparison less inflammatory than Nazi Germany for this. Or are the Nazis the only government in world history that considered restricting the rights of certain populations - especially in the middle of a war?

It's funny, but I can think of another country involved in WW2 that did that...

[ag]

Netanyahu considers revoking rights of Palestinians in East Jerusalem:
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/26/netanyahu-mulls-revoking-rights-for-some-palestinians-in-east-jerusalem.html

If I compare this action to the Nuremberg laws would I be considered an Anti-Semite by the AIPAC crowd?

Yes. Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is inherently anti-semitic, no matter the context. This has been discussed at length here and elsewhere.

Only I didn't compare Israel to Nazi Germany you fool but this specific action.
You understand English or do I have to write it in Hebrew to understand?

I'm fairly certain that you're capable of finding a comparison less inflammatory than Nazi Germany for this. Or are the Nazis the only government in world history that considered restricting the rights of certain populations -

Of course, the most apt comparison is the Russian Empire and the Jews. This was the only state they knew - and this is what they reproduced, the Pale of Settlement included. Israel is the archetypal antisemitic state, and Arabs are its Jews.

[Torie]

" Palestinians in East Jerusalem ... cannot, however, vote in national Israeli elections, ... ."

I didn't know this. What is the rationale for that? Israel considers East Jerusalem part of Israel. The Arabs there have been there since rocks cooled. They are residents. Yet, they cannot vote in national elections.

[Vosem]

" Palestinians in East Jerusalem ... cannot, however, vote in national Israeli elections, ... ."

I didn't know this. What is the rationale for that? Israel considers East Jerusalem part of Israel. The Arabs there have been there since rocks cooled. They are residents. Yet, they cannot vote in national elections.

Palestinians who are permanent residents of East Jerusalem are permitted to apply for and receive Israeli citizenship, but few have exercised this option (since receiving Israeli citizenship means swearing allegiance to the Israeli state). Those who have Israeli citizenship are permitted to vote in national elections.

[Torie]

" Palestinians in East Jerusalem ... cannot, however, vote in national Israeli elections, ... ."

I didn't know this. What is the rationale for that? Israel considers East Jerusalem part of Israel. The Arabs there have been there since rocks cooled. They are residents. Yet, they cannot vote in national elections.

Palestinians who are permanent residents of East Jerusalem are permitted to apply for and receive Israeli citizenship, but few have exercised this option (since receiving Israeli citizenship means swearing allegiance to the Israeli state). Those who have Israeli citizenship are permitted to vote in national elections.

Thanks for the elaboration. That's a relief.

[Comrade Funk]

Can someone tell me what this schmuck has actually done good as PM? Terrorism has risen, tensions are high, peace talks are nowhere, Israel is hated throughout the world, he has isolated the Democratic Party, he failed on Iran/Gaza...I guess he has appealed to his right-wing base enough through settlements and racism during the last election.

For people who support annexing the West Bank, would you give voting rights to the Arabs? If so, are you comfortable with accepting that Israel would no longer be a Jewish state?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Can someone tell me what this schmuck has actually done good as PM? Terrorism has risen, tensions are high, peace talks are nowhere, Israel is hated throughout the world, he has isolated the Democratic Party, he failed on Iran/Gaza...I guess he has appealed to his right-wing base enough through settlements and racism during the last election.

For people who support annexing the West Bank, would you give voting rights to the Arabs? If so, are you comfortable with accepting that Israel would no longer be a Jewish state?

Well, terrorism is definitely down from what it was before the era of the right began. As terrible as these knife attacks are, it's important to remember that before the security fence, Israel was dealing with a suicide bombing a day under Barak. It wasn't uncommon for more Israelis to be killed each day than have been killed in this entire knife terror spree.

[DavidB.]

Well, terrorism is definitely down from what it was before the era of the right began. As terrible as these knife attacks are, it's important to remember that before the security fence, Israel was dealing with a suicide bombing a day under Barak. It wasn't uncommon for more Israelis to be killed each day than have been killed in this entire knife terror spree.

Exactly. The reason that savages use knives in attacking Israelis is that they cannot attack Israelis through suicide bombings anymore.

[Türkisblau]

"Savages"

I see that the dehumanization of Palestinians continues unabated.

[DavidB.]

If a person stabs people just because they belong to another tribe, then yes, I think that fits the definition of the word savage quite well.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The context was pretty clear that "Savages" refers to the actual assailants, not the general population. It seems a fitting description.

[Mr. Morden]

For people who support annexing the West Bank, would you give voting rights to the Arabs? If so, are you comfortable with accepting that Israel would no longer be a Jewish state?

Am I correct in my understanding that if just the West Bank was annexed but not Gaza, then the new Israel+West Bank state would still have more Jews than Arabs?  Thus, even if the Arabs were given the right to vote in this scenario, they'd still be outnumbered (though it would be a lot closer).

[ag]

For people who support annexing the West Bank, would you give voting rights to the Arabs? If so, are you comfortable with accepting that Israel would no longer be a Jewish state?

Am I correct in my understanding that if just the West Bank was annexed but not Gaza, then the new Israel+West Bank state would still have more Jews than Arabs?  Thus, even if the Arabs were given the right to vote in this scenario, they'd still be outnumbered (though it would be a lot closer).

Yes, of course. But that would also mean that forming an all-Zionist government using the current electoral system would become nearly impossible. Population of the combined Israel/Jerusalem/WestBank would be, give or take, 11 mln. people. Of these, a bit more than 6 mln would be Jewish - about 55% or a bit more. By including the non-Jewish ex-Soviets and taking into account the greater proportion of kids among the Arabs you might get to an electorate that is about 60% Jewish. I will be even more generous and suppose that Zionist parties get 75 seats (62.5% of the total). Assuming the two largest parties (say, these are still Labor and Likud) get half of that or a bit more (this is already not a given), this would still not get them to even 40 seats, where they need 61. So, they would necessarily have to attract a bunch of other parties. But there is no way on earth one can form a government that contains Meretz, Shas, UTJ, the Russians, the Religious Zionists, Lapidista types - and the  Labor/Likud combine at the same time. So, it is almost inevitable that every government would have to include non-Zionist parties. This may seem ok to you, but most Zionist Israelis would have a conniption at the thought.

Of course, the electoral system could be changed. Push comes to shove, an FPTP or something of the sort with gerrymandered districts could be used to minimize the non-Zionist representation. But, given the residential segregation, such gerrymandering would have to be pretty blatant. And, as the non-Jewish share of the electorate grows (for demographic reasons) the "problem" would get "worse".

[tpfkaw]

Of course, the electoral system could be changed. Push comes to shove, an FPTP or something of the sort with gerrymandered districts could be used to minimize the non-Zionist representation. But, given the residential segregation, such gerrymandering would have to be pretty blatant. And, as the non-Jewish share of the electorate grows (for demographic reasons) the "problem" would get "worse".

Another "problem" with FPTP in that situation is that Arab turnout in elections is very low and many Arabs who have the ability to accept Israeli citizenship haven't (as discussed above). That makes it kind of like Northern Ireland, where the Unionists used to hold every seat because Catholics mostly boycotted the elections, but in the past several decades seats that were once safe unionist became safe nationalist, as Catholics became more politically active.

[dead0man]

French Foreign Minister asks Bibi and Abbas to sit down in an effort to calm tensions.  Bibi says yes, he'll meet any place any time.  Abbas ignores the Frenchman. 

LOL Bibi

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Could there be a sort of Notthern Irish power-sharing executive? Yes I know many will balk at the thought, but many would have been sceptical at the idea of orangemen and shinners managing to share government (yes I know the Norn government is hardly ideal, but...)

Perhaps the whole area needs to become a Confederation?

[ag]

Could there be a sort of Notthern Irish power-sharing executive? Yes I know many will balk at the thought, but many would have been sceptical at the idea of orangemen and shinners managing to share government (yes I know the Norn government is hardly ideal, but...)

Perhaps the whole area needs to become a Confederation?

Why would either side prefer that to full partition? I can see the attractions of a partition, I can see the attractions of integration - but what are the attractionds of a "confederation"?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Well it would leave both communities distinct, yet hopefully less often at each other's throats. I'm sceptical of my own idea, mainly because confederations break down all the time, but it's clear both ethnic groups want themselves to have their own administration and law (which argues against infiltration) bit are never going to be fully confined to one geographic space within the greater Palastine/Israel region (which suggests full partition will be a bloody nightmare).

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Huh, I just googled to see if anyone had come up with the idea, and whether I should patent it or not and only two days ago Martin Schultz publicly mused about it as well:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-break-top-eu-official-suggests-israel-palestine-confederation/

[ingemann]

For people who support annexing the West Bank, would you give voting rights to the Arabs? If so, are you comfortable with accepting that Israel would no longer be a Jewish state?

Am I correct in my understanding that if just the West Bank was annexed but not Gaza, then the new Israel+West Bank state would still have more Jews than Arabs?  Thus, even if the Arabs were given the right to vote in this scenario, they'd still be outnumbered (though it would be a lot closer).

Yes, of course. But that would also mean that forming an all-Zionist government using the current electoral system would become nearly impossible. Population of the combined Israel/Jerusalem/WestBank would be, give or take, 11 mln. people. Of these, a bit more than 6 mln would be Jewish - about 55% or a bit more. By including the non-Jewish ex-Soviets and taking into account the greater proportion of kids among the Arabs you might get to an electorate that is about 60% Jewish. I will be even more generous and suppose that Zionist parties get 75 seats (62.5% of the total). Assuming the two largest parties (say, these are still Labor and Likud) get half of that or a bit more (this is already not a given), this would still not get them to even 40 seats, where they need 61. So, they would necessarily have to attract a bunch of other parties. But there is no way on earth one can form a government that contains Meretz, Shas, UTJ, the Russians, the Religious Zionists, Lapidista types - and the  Labor/Likud combine at the same time. So, it is almost inevitable that every government would have to include non-Zionist parties. This may seem ok to you, but most Zionist Israelis would have a conniption at the thought.

Yes it's why I really don't get this obsession with trying to make it impossible to get rid of the West Bank with settlements. Annexing it result it the problem you mention and the existing Palestinian Bantustan will not be viable in the long term, and large scale ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians into Jordan will have some negative effects for Israel (I don't even see USA keep backing Israel if they do that).

[ingemann]

Could there be a sort of Notthern Irish power-sharing executive? Yes I know many will balk at the thought, but many would have been sceptical at the idea of orangemen and shinners managing to share government (yes I know the Norn government is hardly ideal, but...)

It's not going to happen, the problem is that for the average Israeli power-sharing will be more negative than continue status quo, while in NI power sharing was a improvement to status quo.

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I don't think a Belgium style federation would be a bad idea, with a federal government with limited power and strong sub-federal states, but it's hard to see how the Israeli will accept it.

[ag]

For people who support annexing the West Bank, would you give voting rights to the Arabs? If so, are you comfortable with accepting that Israel would no longer be a Jewish state?

Am I correct in my understanding that if just the West Bank was annexed but not Gaza, then the new Israel+West Bank state would still have more Jews than Arabs?  Thus, even if the Arabs were given the right to vote in this scenario, they'd still be outnumbered (though it would be a lot closer).

Yes, of course. But that would also mean that forming an all-Zionist government using the current electoral system would become nearly impossible. Population of the combined Israel/Jerusalem/WestBank would be, give or take, 11 mln. people. Of these, a bit more than 6 mln would be Jewish - about 55% or a bit more. By including the non-Jewish ex-Soviets and taking into account the greater proportion of kids among the Arabs you might get to an electorate that is about 60% Jewish. I will be even more generous and suppose that Zionist parties get 75 seats (62.5% of the total). Assuming the two largest parties (say, these are still Labor and Likud) get half of that or a bit more (this is already not a given), this would still not get them to even 40 seats, where they need 61. So, they would necessarily have to attract a bunch of other parties. But there is no way on earth one can form a government that contains Meretz, Shas, UTJ, the Russians, the Religious Zionists, Lapidista types - and the  Labor/Likud combine at the same time. So, it is almost inevitable that every government would have to include non-Zionist parties. This may seem ok to you, but most Zionist Israelis would have a conniption at the thought.

Yes it's why I really don't get this obsession with trying to make it impossible to get rid of the West Bank with settlements. Annexing it result it the problem you mention and the existing Palestinian Bantustan will not be viable in the long term, and large scale ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians into Jordan will have some negative effects for Israel (I don't even see USA keep backing Israel if they do that).

Well, there is, obviously, a background idea that somehow doing ethnic cleansing "innocently" would be possible. Perhaps, there would be some sort of a war in which the population would be displaced "temporarily".  Or that somehow somebody would agree on a population exchange. Or simply the forces of economic migration would gradually push the Arabs out, without Israel appearing to do much proactively (hence, the hatred of UNRWA, of course). Sometime, somehow Arabs will disappear - one only has to wait.